Israeli Theater Terrain Upgrade

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-07-08 12:13:28

As everyone knows - ITO2 uses Dudi Likvornik's terrain. This was a geographic terrain and not based on spherical data. This has introduced a few problems for us. . . Therefore we are going to rebuild the terrain from scratch.

The center coordinates will remain the same:

Lat = +30 and Long +35

Once we get it rebuilt we will look at asking Blueprint to generate us a new SRTM if he is willing.

Campaigns will then be updated as well . . .

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-11-26 14:30:43

T-rex recently suggested remaking/replacing some tiles for Israeli Theater. I concur that ITO could really benefit from such a project.

I have a few comments regarding such a project. First I would like to list what I see are some of the principle features and problems of the existing terrain.

a. Israeli terrain uses 128x128 tiles
b. Israeli terrain uses a subset of old Korea tiles, a variation of a subset of Balkan tiles, and several sets of unique tiles for Israeli theater
c. The main tile sets that have problems (IMHO) are as follows: 1) coastal transition is incomplete and mixed inland water tiles with ocean tiles, 2) desert tiles look artificial and lack variation, 3) mountain tiles look artificial and lack variation, 4) sand dune tiles are not seamless and don't transition well to other terrain, 5) use of Korea tile sets don't adequately represent the middle east being shifted to much towards a green palette instead of brown.

Next I would like to provide some research I did about 3 years ago and explain a bit about the process of terrain planning and how it relates to creating good terrain. I have surveyed the tile sets for ODS, Korea (old style), Korea (Hi-Tiles), Balkans and Israeli Theaters and have identified all the tile sets, what tiles they have in common, what are unique to a specific theater. What I discovered was that some tile sets fail to use the CATE convention to be used for autotiling. This complicates process of retilling. Laslty, some tile sets seem to be repeats or place holders for tiles perhaps planned to use later as terrain tile variations.

Next I would like to provide a few explanations about the basic of transition tiles. First, terrain tiles can be categorized as a terrain tile - (a solid seamless tile put end to end that creates a specific terrain, or a transition sets allow one to transition from one terrain tile to another. When you survey the tile sets you can discover that some terrain tiles transition to many other tiles - (i.e. Forest) or terrain tiles can be a limited to a single transition. The easiest way to understand this is to create a diagram which connect the various terrain tiles to each other based on the transition tile sets. Once you have an idea of the existing terrain tile sets it is easier to then understand if you want to replace a tile set - how many transition sets are needed. Similarly, if you wish to add a new terrain tile you then need to determine how many transition set will be need and how they will fit with the existing tile sets. The easiest way to add tile sets is to add a tile set that is a terminal - i.e. only transitions to one other tile set and doesn't contain any roads or rivers.

WIth all this said - taking a seemingly simple project of adding a few additional tile sets to Israeli theater, upgrading the tiles to 256x256 tiles, and so forth becomes a much larger task. For example, each terrain tile needs 15 tiles for a standard transition. Then multiply the number of different transitions needed - so for Forest you may need 8 transtion sets for one tile - - so 120 tiles. Then you also need to add the case where some tile meet at places like the ocean and you need a transition tile keystone to linke a costal tile desert with a coastal tile mountain1. Very rapidly thing begin to get more complex.

If tiles can be generated quickly and efficiently the project can be done in a short amount of time. If existing tile can be used and simply change the palettes (as in the case of Hi-tiles) a large part of a theater like Israeli theater could have over half its tiles replaced with Hi-tiles and then the remainder of the tiles could then be reworked - perhaps reworking/replacing older tiles with other existing Hi-resolution tiles from other theaters. It might be possible to generate a decent new look for a theater with perhaps 12-20 transition tile sets if the mostly existing tiles are used.

One suggestion I had considered for ITO about a year ago was to use the autumn Hi-tiles, and then select tile sets from ODS, and Peru to replace existing tile sets and then add a few tile sets. Specifically, a pretty decent terrain might be accomplished with the following:

1. Completed ocean/coastal tile sets (some can use Hi-tiles some need to be made new from scratch)
2. Add two additional water tile sets and direct transtions to ocean tile (light blue and medblue)
3. Add two additional variations of desert tiles
4. Add two additional variation of mountain1 tiles w/o snow caps
5. Create some new airbase tile sets to better customize airbase work for the future.

The key to minimizing the workload is to carefully analyze use of the existing tile structure and select transitions carefully to avoid having to generate lots of transition sets.

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-11-26 14:37:04

Several problems have been observed with the SRTM terrain - those who have flown it extensively report that we have several problems.

1. Campaign units aren't moving properly
2. Hatzerim buildings present after previous fix
3. Ovda airbase PD/PHD points are not aligned with objective/feature placement
4. Palmahim airbase has a step incline at west end of runway causing impact on takeoff/landing for those not careful
5. Various arab bases also show signs of relocation.

Based on discussions with Biker we concur that RV development will revert back to using standard terrain until solutions to the problems above can be found.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-11-26 17:19:52

Ouch, what does that mean? SRTM is not fully functional after all?

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-11-26 17:29:17

That is what it appears.

The SRTM seems to have some slight variation in locations. For near center of the theater all is okay - but the further out you go the differences are more noticeable.

It is like the whole terrain coordinates are offset slightly from some center point - so it is off and slightly rotated.

I wouldn't necessarily apply to all theaters - Just Israel. I think that Blueprint was confused about the data originally used to create Dudi' theater. He figured something out and it is close but still not exactly right. Truly - what probably needs to be done is a total redo of the terrain using new data then I am guessing that SRTM would be just fine.

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-12-02 07:53:28

SM -

My earlier comments about SRTM may be premature. I think the issue may actually be in the RV conversion process. RV hard codes some things - I am not privy to all the items and apparently neither are some others on the team.

I rebuilt my RV install using my old cobra install just as it is from the public install with no hiccups and presto same problems so I am checking into this new development. Somehow, features/objectives are changed or "Not changed" from Korea. There is always another mystery

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-12-02 07:54:39

Those who haven't seen Dudi's last work on terrain I have some pics for you.

Maybe something like this will occur for Israeli Theater?

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310 ... 094353.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310 ... 094346.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310 ... 094324.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310 ... 094304.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310 ... 094227.jpg

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2007-12-02 11:14:45

Good lord man, first I through that my net connection is acting up but the first image was like 1.4mb in size

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-12-02 17:28:44

Ranger,
take the last part (the "[/img]") off of the links and they will pull up directly by clicking on them.

- DONE -

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-12-04 13:15:37

Apologies SM - If need be I can pull the pics. I thought the pics would be useful in showing what can be done with satelite imagery. Some ideas come to mind for something less than the whole theater . . .

block section whole mountain ranges then transition around them

block section key cities/ports and transition around them

block section key objectives/battle areas and transition around them

block section areas around all airbases and primary flight corridors and transition around them

The whole theater doesn't need to be tiled just limited areas - still a huge task but -- the results would be quite stunning. Done smartly with a good artist transitions would result in some huge improvements in overall looks.

Once you get in the business of photo tiles we run into the conflict between the features present in objectives versus what the tile shows. So perhpas cities might not be so good. With airbases we might be able to hvae more control, especially if you replaced a few Israeli airbases with newer ones - - same for Arab side . . . right now airbases are generic - - so perhaps taking a few airbases and comitting them to CCC's new stuff and accepting these as the "NEW GENERIC" airbases would be one way to resolve that.
===============================================

Some good news about SRTM - - I was able to resolve the issues. The problem is RV defaults to using the Falcon4tree.ocd and and Falcon4tree.fed files. Since those files are incompatible with ITO at the moment - that was the source of the objectives issues. I have since fixed the issue for the moment.

Long term solution is to go back and add trees to the FED and OCD files for an up-to-date set of trees files, maybe add fences too?

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-12-04 15:05:45

Satelite imagery will be easist and most believeable where there are little or no buildings, roads, etc. Desert areas, mountain areas are probably the most ideal. The fewer edits needed for the tiles the better.

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-12-08 03:35:15

Okay, here are links for working on tiles with sets>256 and Tiles >4096.

Bottom line is max theoretical limit on tiles is just over 1 million. So, basically every tile can be photo-tile. But, it needs to be tested.

http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/Downlo ... r-1.55.zip
http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/Downlo ... l-1.55.zip
http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/Downlo ... .v1.55.zip

Note this version of Terrainview works with both the 2-byte and 4-byte
offsets.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-12-08 18:31:47

ranger822 wrote:Okay, here are links for working on tiles with sets>256 and Tiles >4096.

Bottom line is max theoretical limit on tiles is just over 1 million. So, basically every tile can be photo-tile. But, it needs to be tested.

http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/Downlo ... r-1.55.zip
http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/Downlo ... l-1.55.zip
http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/Downlo ... .v1.55.zip

Note this version of Terrainview works with both the 2-byte and 4-byte
offsets.

There is only the one exe in that download zip and it is for the 4-byte terrains. It won't work with the 2 byte terrains. I tried it.

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2007-12-10 04:32:13

nope - downloads are all there - all the exe's are there and the readme, and the instructions - if you still have problems contact Fred directly . . . his e-mail is plastered all over the place . . .heheh

I haven't tried to use it yet but it doesn't sound like you got a good download - try it again. I reloaded just to verify - no problems here, again.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2007-12-10 17:26:53

ranger822 wrote:nope - downloads are all there - all the exe's are there and the readme, and the in, and the instructions - if you still have problems contact Fred directly . . . his e-mail is plastered all over the place . . .heheh

I haven't tried to use it yet but it doesn't sound like you got a good download - try it again. I reloaded just to verify - no problems here, again.

No, you misunderstood me because I was not clear

. For the TerrainView download zip only. There is only one program (.exe) file in that zip. I tried it on 2-byte L2/O2 and it did not work. It did work on a 4-byte L2/O2. The TerrainViewSMall.exe will still be needed to work on 2-Byte terrains. Just FYI.

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2008-01-07 18:11:51

Sherlock and I have been forumating a plan to upgrade the Israeli Theater terrain. There are several goals for the upgrade and we want to keep it simple and involve as little work as possible.

1. Basic premise is we will first plan to use the existing terrain tile configuration for the purpose of replacing existing Korea/Balkan Tiles used by Israeli Theater with the Korea/Balkan Hi-tiles and rebuilding the terrain with SeasonSwticher for Fall/Autumn.

2. The remainder of the Israeli tiles are to be evaluated for upsizing (from 128x128) or total reworking to present a more "middle-eastern" appearance.

3. Incomplete tile sets currently used by ITO2 will be identified and missing tiles completed.

4. A tile set analysis will also include identification of tile sets and the number of other terrain types the tile set will transition to. This will be useful in identifying tile sets that present the easiest opporutunity to change/add terrain tiles to ITO2.

5. Once all the tiles and tile sets are identified we will begin making the new tiles, update the texture.bin and fartiles.pal, rebuild the terrain, and issue a terrain update installer. Hopefully we can include in this an SRTM conversion tool as well.

6. Once we have an update of the tiles we have also discussed the long term goal of rebuilding Israeli Theater terrain from the beginning using Spherical (instead of Geographic) data. This project however, will require starting from scratch (well not exactly seince the terrain tiles will be done). But it does mean having to redo the tiling, CATE, linking, etc.

7. Additional ideas include phototiles for airbases and possibly other areas of the theater.

As one can tell this is a very ambitious project and one which is not likely to be accomlished any time soon. My sincere hope is that this project doesn't fall victim to time like so many other theater projects have - simply a lack of interest and failure to finish should the project take more time than anticipated.

87th_striker · Post by **87th_striker** » 2008-01-07 18:37:42

How can Falcon use spherical data ? Do you need a special version ?

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2008-01-07 19:58:06

87th_striker wrote:How can Falcon use spherical data ? Do you need a special version ?

Ranger only meant that we will use the existing format produced from DEM2Terrain (like the theaters here at PMC use now). The existing (original) Israeli theater did not use the output format produced by DEM2Terrain but instead used another type of projection (whose name escapes me right now).

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2008-01-07 20:32:07

Sherlock wrote:
87th_striker wrote:How can Falcon use spherical data ? Do you need a special version ?
Ranger only meant that we will use the existing format produced from DEM2Terrain (like the theaters here at PMC use now). The existing (original) Israeli theater did not use the output format produced by DEM2Terrain but instead used another type of projection (whose name escapes me right now).

I think the term is "Geographic Projection"

I have no idea how terrain is able to use the DEM - it is all "Magic" to me. I seem to recall that Blueprint indicated that his SRTM data that he was using to generated SRTM updates to Falcon terrain (including Israeli theater) was using Spherical data - however Blueprint is the man to ask directly about terrain questions like this. There is another thread on PMC that helped reveal that Israeli Theater is a little different - when Blueprint prepared our SRTM update package I discovered the projection map was different and Blueprint figured out what the difference was and reran the SRTM package using the other type of projection which has worked out just fine as far as I can tell.

87th_striker · Post by **87th_striker** » 2008-01-07 22:45:24

Ok, I see. I have seen spherical solutions on flight sim projects before, and there are clever guys way out there, in the falcon world.....

Closter · Post by **Closter** » 2008-01-07 23:33:50

Striker, I thought you had read it here

Spherical projection, in Falcon, is only a clever way to project earth over a flat map. There is not a spherical map in Falcon as I know it, not that it is impossible to implement it

87th_striker · Post by **87th_striker** » 2008-01-08 19:59:22

Closter wrote:Striker, I thought you had read it here

Spherical projection, in Falcon, is only a clever way to project earth over a flat map. There is not a spherical map in Falcon as I know it, not that it is impossible to implement it

He he, I read it here...... http://www.arenalogic.com/fhome.asp Many good names....

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2008-01-15 14:37:23

@ 87th_Striker - not much at that link -- unless you have other areas you can visit but I am amazed how many other little efforts have spawned in Falcon over the years. I wish more of them had met with a final product.

87th_striker · Post by **87th_striker** » 2008-01-15 17:23:59

ranger822 wrote:@ 87th_Striker - not much at that link -- unless you have other areas you can visit but I am amazed how many other little efforts have spawned in Falcon over the years. I wish more of them had met with a final product.

Viper Arena made a demo that used the earth as sphere, not as a flat pancake. The programmers usually contributes to the F4 developement in some ways....

ranger822 · Post by **ranger822** » 2008-02-11 13:30:53

Well, not much progress to date - - but a lot of progress elsewhere in ITO. It doesn't seem like it but the elusive beta for RV-ITO2 seems close at hand now.

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