Roads

[Polak]

I do not know too much about terrain tools in F4, but is there any possibility to have the road tile system like this included in them? Perhaps they are flexible enough? Roads configured according to shapes shown below would possibly add visually to terrains.
50,51,52,53, , 47-48, 56,57, 54,55, 49(not sure) are already in the system. Others are not.

[Snake Man]

I don't know how CATE would handle those tiles... if someone cares to try to configure it for them, I'd be interested to see how the configuration file turns out.

[Polak]

If it is only possible , I would be more than willing to spend some time to learn and try to implement it. I just need some pointers. The above could not only be used for the roads but rivers as well. IMHO this would definitely make an impact and change for the better how the roads and rivers look now in F4 terrains.

[Phoenix711]

There was a great topic about how the tiles should be named. That is, if one feature enters the tile from right, you would call it

HROADE01 for example. When it leaves from bottom, you add a number etc.

CATE Config for roads and Rivers, on FARM type of terrain:

Tile=48 0/48 1/126 2/125 3/113 4/112 5/115 6/117 7/122 8/118 9/119 10/116 11/120 12/114 13/121 14/123 15/124 16/393 32/394 48/384 64/392 80/389 96/387 112/395 128/397 144/390 160/386 176/391 192/385 208/388 224/396 240/224 165/369 90/372

The numbers before the / are the feature number. You must chech from PathMaker or Terrainview, which of those numbers means what features, entering / exiting / finishing up in that tile.

For example:

10 / 116:

116 is the tile ID number for HFARMD3A, in which one road enters from left, exits from right (Or vice versa). That means, if the original tile ID on the terrain is 48 (fixed farm tile at start configs), and CATE finds the number of features for that tile position as 10 (horizontal road only), it puts 116 there as the terrain tile.

165/369:

369 tile is HFARMD41, is a bridge tile, having vertical Road and horizontal River. If feature count calculated as 165, CATE puts tile 365 there.

Looking at all this, maybe we be able to create a config to lay down features like in your example. Wouldn't be easy though.

Pathmaker usage:

First, export all your H tiles onto a folder.
Open up and load your texture.bin file. Select Edit -> Show Tile List.
Then click any tile number from the list, it asks you the path for tiles. Show the above folder you put H tiles in. And yopu can see the tile ID s together with tile names, and pictures.

Cheers.

[Polak]

Very interesting.

There are here some additional challenges and I agree it might be not so easy to overcome them all. To make all those tiles is a peanut, implement them it is not.

I am quite convinced though that the look of roads and rivers(!) is one of the MOST important aspect (and unfortunately at the current - detriment) of visual presentation of the F4 tile terrain engine.

[Phoenix711]

Theres always the option of Hand Tiling roads and rivers. Takes time tough.

[Polak]

Theres always the option of Hand Tiling roads and rivers. Takes time tough.

Hand tiling is scary though.
Where can I find PathMaker?
BTW there is a small problem with diagonal ends of the roads. They fall into the corner of the tile and if they have any thickness (roads) they need to be "supplemented" by small pieces in adjacent tiles. So the usual solution is to shift the diagonal end of the road to slightly to one side and then use only 1 adjacent tile with small corner piece usually at 45deg. Complicates the thing further as far as programming.

Unfortunately , still I feel VERY strongly about idea of having diagonal roads (and rivers).

[Phoenix711]

Pathmaker and all the terrain tools: This site Downloads section.

That kind of roads are included in the Aegean theater for Urban Highways. You can check, Istanbul, Athens or Ankara for big examples. Hand tiled of course.

If the effect is close to what you think, one option may be that CATE does its job with standart tiles, and then hand tiling may be done over those standart roads/rivers with the new tiles for appropriate places. Can't send SS now, but Istanbul is a good example of how it looks.

[87th_striker]

I do not know too much about terrain tools in F4, but is there any possibility to have the road tile system like this included in them? Perhaps they are flexible enough? Roads configured according to shapes shown below would possibly add visually to terrains.
50,51,52,53, , 47-48, 56,57, 54,55, 49(not sure) are already in the system. Others are not.

img]http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo83 ... /roads.gif[/img]

I know I shouldn't quote images, Snake Man, but need to do it for the reference.

Polak, one thing I've seen when tiling is that a combined coast/road tile is needed. Especially where terrain to coast is steep. We'll also need to have some kinds of variations to make the coastline look good. So maybe ALL tiles except 61,64,63,62,49 and 60 should have an additional coasttile, repeating both coast and road in same feature. This would make the roads along the hilly coasts look better. Might be needed in ODS, Iran, Balkan etc etc. Anyone have some additional comments to this suggestion ?

[Luk]

Anyone have some additional comments to this suggestion?

Yes, those tiles are missing. But we need combined "road alongside river" tile as well - espacially for valleys.

Luk

[Polak]

I see no problem adding roads to any set of tiles. I t could be done by finding the nature containing the road or simply adding the layer with the road to existing set.

My previous question regarding the roads was if more gradual road sweeps like 65-70 could be added to F4 terrain engine.
From what I could gather so far, after reading some CATE manual, it is rather a matter of the algorithm by which CATE positions the roads. It works by keeping XY differential at minimum. Introduction of other type of tile but 90deg sweep would require telling CATE that there is another set of tiles which instead of decreasing the difference by 1/2 can do that even faster and by greater value than 1/2 tile. Coding undoubtfully involved.

I see no problem in naming new set of diagonal tiles in the new 16 tile group. This in fact could be the truly practical, even if half measured, solution for manual tiling.