UI screens I

[Widowmaker]

Here my first result of altering the UI screens
I'd like to keep it a sober as possible..




as you see the UI screens refers to this topic:
http://www.pmctactical.org/f4/ubb/Forum ... 00064.html

Widowmaker

[This message has been edited by Widowmaker (edited July 15, 2001).]

[Ice]

Looks great Widowmaker.
Like it alot.

[ccc]

promising! we need tutorial...i think the left and lower part of UI screen is our focus. As those on right half, its usually masked by map or others windows.

my idea is, for Operation Desert Storm, we can replace UI screen with US Army troop Desert camo pattern, and for Vietnam, maybe SEA jungle camo pattern. Should promote the atmosphere!

[Widowmaker]

OK ccc.. I'll write a tutorial

did you get my mail????

first of all not all file stuctures are
dealt with by me.. those with multiple images in them are still tricky.. I can't figure out the syntax for them
well I hope to do today

plus I am going to taker a look at all the *.idx files
There are quite alot of them so dont expect me to finnish it soon..


Widmak

[Widowmaker]

I will slowly write a manual
on how to edit the UI screens

I'll first start here piece by piece to later round it up in a complete document..

requirements

Perl
tga2res.pl
procidx.pl
irc2res.pl

First how to take a look inside the *idx/rsc files..
this way we can catogarize all files and look what they are resposible for..


ok first just to edit the Main UI screen

first find the apropiate *.idx/rsc file
it is located in the art/recourse folder
in this case the files are called mainbg.*
(tahk god the names of the files are quite
clear as to what they are)
unpack these files with perl and procidx.pl with the following command
perl procidx.pl mainbg.idx
(be sure perl, the edited files and the scripts are in the same dir, and that you run this undr the doswindow..)

now there will be a TGA image file created
it is 256 color (8bit uncompressed)
and it is flipped..
it is named MAIN_SCRN.TGA

(you dnt have to edit this one.. it is just to ilustrate how to open up the idx files to find out how they are named for Falcon

to get this image back into idx format:
perl tga2res.pl filename.tga MAIN_SCRN

now two files will have been created
MAIN_SCRN.idx and rsc
rename threm mainbg.idx/rsc
and copy them back to the apropiate folder


fire up Falcon..


I'm currently busy alteriuing the complete DGFT UI screen including the litle images
just found out not all these images have
an tranparency color, I wonder if this is hardcoded, or can be triggered by another datafile??

Widmak

[Zaggy]

My UI effort...

http://jove.prohosting.com/~tglb/f4stuff/zagui.jpg

[ccc]

Cool Zaggy!

is that the theme desktop of Red Storm Rising?

[RP]

Zaggy! I want that 1!

[Zaggy]

Its Alpha for the UI for my Little Nordic Winter Theater... But Metalhead has been kind enough to actually convert it for me already... I guess I could put the converted files up online sometime soon, if ppl really like it...

Iff anyone does want it, say so, and it'll go up tonight...

[Zaggy]

It seems Falcon 3.0 is now FREE!!!! :- http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=2128

As is F-16 Combat Pilot:- http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=392

And Falcon AT:- http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=1416

Get out that Old 486, that youre using as a footrest, or a boat anchor or (in my case) a Print Server, dig up your good old DOS 6.22 install disks and have some fun... Just like 10years ago...

as for my UI:- http://jove.prohosting.com/~tglb/f4stuff/zagui.zip

There are now a HEAP more in the works, due to several ICQ requests....

[Snake Man]

quote:Originally posted by Zaggy:
Its Alpha for the UI for my Little Nordic Winter Theater...

Whats that, are you referring to the "Nordic Theater" that the guys have been mentioning here earlier?

[Zaggy]

Nordic Winter is just my little project... In theory, to provide the most Inhospitiable theater possible.... Everything covered in snow, ground vehiles in white, structures camouflaged white, white valleys and fjords, F4Weather going crazy with snow... And Russians trying to shoot your ass down!!! Lots of the bastards....

I want to basically do a winterised version of the orginal EF2000 (DID), with F-16's and eventually the EF2000 model and stuff... Sort of like the old game, just in winter, with a better campaign...

[Snake Man]

Ah okay.

btw your UI screens simply rock!

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[Zaggy]

Cheers SnakeMan... I may have to do a site with theses UI's on them... Everyone who has seen my UI's has gone off about them... The ones that U and Widmak dont use, I'll have to put them up on the site for download or something... Maybe today, but Ive got to find Pics of F-4's now... More UI's...

[87th_striker]

Hi Guys !

Some info on what the two nordic theaters are doing....

Zaggy has informed us of what he is working on, basicly a winter theater, while I'm trying to create a late spring theater (first). I have invited Zaggy to join and help out, but he wants to do his own thing.

That doesn't matter for me, though I would really love to see his efforts teamed up with the F4 Nordic project. I can see that the project can have several seasons, and winter will come.

The big challenge here is getting in russian dem data to "ordinary" geographic projection, and not on Lambert projection as it is today.

I'd really like to see that Zaggy picks another name for his project, if he choose to continue it. May I suggest Polar Scandic (Scandinavian) or similar. This way we would avoid the mixups.

Anyway, Zaggy, I cannot see why our efforts shouldn't be teamed up. Making any theater is just work work work, and the more resources to help out, the more likely the theater would reach a release.

Future likely expansions of F4 Nordic could be merges with Iceland to create a GIUK theater (Greenland Iceland UK) a la Harpoon. (version 4 on the way, I hear)

Zaggy, I think we should talk this over again. The only real difference between our goals, is the colour of the tiles...

Comments from the others

[ccc]

oops! a very similar talk we heard a long while ago

[Zaggy]

Im relectant to join you guys basically cos I bring NO SKILLS at all (with maybe the exception of UI's if the feedback ive been getting from the teams i find myself doing UI's for, is any indication), and can not see how this would benifit your team... But I will offer my skills with UI's and Tactics no worries....

My Nordic Winter (which i guess i may have to start calling 'vikingland') is primarily a learning experience for me, and a chance to remake the old DID EF2000 the way i would have liked to have seen it... Step 1 is Terrain. Step 2 is Tiles. Step 3 is Objects. Step 4 is creating new LOD's for stuff like tree's and revetments. Step 5 LE's. Step 6 campaigns...

ATM, i have skills in creating the terrain only... Useless to Nordic Spring.

Dont get me wrong, Im quite flattered by the offer to join these guys on their Theater, but i as off yet have nothing to bring to the team, except someone who doesnt have all the skills yet, and would require training, taking up time best spent creating tiles/ tiling/ creating objects, etc... Basically, with my skills (or lack thereof), id be a drain on your team ATM...

But thats just my opinion...

OBTW... Anyone else want to jump on the queue for some UI's....


Edited cos I cant spell!!!!

[87th_striker]

We are all learning here, Zaggy....

Guess your skills are one thing (they seem good though), your dedication is equally important.

[T_Rex]

I agree. It seems to me you can learn all that stuff in the context of working together as well as you could working separately. In my little experience, everyone understands that this is a hobby to 99.999% of the people here! I don't think anyone gets to critical of people making mistakes or even of taking to long to show what they've done so far.

That's my $.02.

T

[Widowmaker]

QUOTE'The big challenge here is getting in russian dem data to "ordinary" geographic projection, and not on Lambert projection as it is today.'
END

the new version of DEM2LF.exe will be able to run the bigfiles like rusia
so it is waiting on Miram to release the
exe..
Miram is a busy guy,, yet last I heard it should be released any time soon..

Widmak

[87th_striker]

Widowmaker, That's really good news !!

Zaggy, we could leave you to the winter stuff. I mean, the big job is placing initial tiles and adjusting elevation data, to get things to look like it is on the map. After that you just replace the tiles. Then it's the objects and campaign stuff that needs to be done, but they would be very similar for summer & winter.

[Zaggy]

The Big job, IMHO, is doing the research and the tiles... Finding decent city maps and satellite photos of simply my sample area (Trondheim Vaernes), is proving a MAJOR hassle.. Using city tiles are great, but they look nothing like Trondheim... As for adjusting the elevation data, i have no idea what piece of s/w u use for that yet!!!

Then there is fun stuff to do like create LOD's for tree's and revetments and stuff...

Question: Can the density of Terrain Data points be increased in small sections of the terrain??? Say add a few points here to make this mountain look right, a few points there to make this fjord look right, etc....

Another question.... The 'lights' in city tiles, can the lights be turned off at night??

For example, im looking into the feasibility of having a good portion of the Highway Tiles also lit (with road lights). Who here has flown over cities at night, and NOT seen the 'octopus' of main roads leading out of city? Id like to light these roads in the early part of campaign, but have them turned off on Night 2 or something...

(eddited kos I karnt spell)

[Washout]

Hi Zaggy

I can perhaps answer some of your queries although I maybe wrong as it's been a while since the Balkans was at this stage and Widowmaker and others have made good inroads into expanding the terrain engine since then.

Regarding data points - Falcon 4 can go down to a 250 metre resolution DEM, which I think is the resolution used by the L0. The main problem though isn't Falcon 4, it's getting hold of the data (at least it was for me). At the time I started the Balkans I contracted for a government agency with a GIS department and although they could provide me with data for the UK down to 1metre resolution the rest of the world was a real problem at anything below 1Km. The data exists but you have to pay for it. Places to start looking are the Mapinfo and Arcview sites as these are the largest GIS software producers I know of but I also found lots of others just using GIS as a search word on the net.

Because we used a 1Km res DEM (L2) for the Balkans (and I suspect Korea was the same) and because the L1 and L0 files are made up of averaging techniques from the L2 data, you will not get as many sheer drops as the averages tend to level these out - this is needed for Scandanavia IMO.

The road lighting should be able to be done by using the reserved pallete entries for night lighting (Manfred "Schumi" Nelles is your man for this). This is how it is done currently and just needs expanding from the city tiles to the roads....nice idea.

I don't think the city lights can be turned off without swapping the textures for non-nightlight versions - could be wrong though.

BTW - I'd love to see a Scandanavia theatre for Falcon 4 as I used to love the moody atmosphere in EF2000

Later


Chris "Washout" Carter
CO: The Vulture Squadron
Balkans Terrain Team

[Zaggy]

Yeah, I was talking to Striker the other night, and the only way to increase the resolution, to work on small things (like those mountains and fjords) is to run the matrix thru some manner of algorithm with can got to 500m and 250m resolutions I understand... then you can edit those points... But map size (Mb) increases, as one would expect, exponentially (x4 for 500m, x16 for 250m)... Doesnt matter...

If the road lights cant be turned off, such is, they stay on... Is it feasible tho, to have a lod developed for light poles on main roads?? then, just we can turn nav/airfield lights on/off, i guess we could turn the lights on the poles off... Just another idea...

EF2000 was AWESOME... I still play that game... Id love to combine ComGP's EF2000 model with my terrain, or even Strikers Nordic Terrain... I can see me getting MANY weeks of fun out of that... Especially if we can also work out ways of prolonging Campaigns (mine over Korea averaged 6days or so)... Could we say, Double this?? Or Treble it?? Have Campaigns last for weeks instead of days???

OBTW, you Balkans Guys want any UI's???

[87th_striker]

Ok, it maybe time to say something about those 1000 meter versus 250 meter resolution data.

I have been thinking about this, since problems that need solving in making realistic terrains with "room" for tiles between mountain sides and sea. I guess the same problem is present in Nevada, making those canyons. I was looking into it, since the largest canyon in Northern Europe is situated in Northern Norway. There is also a dam there, but smaller than the Hoover Dam, but it's still 130 meter high, made of Concrete. Makeing those narrow canyons natural will be hard on L2 level.

Basicly, the only thing you can get a hold of is 1000 meter interval height data. But they could be changed to 250 meter interval data. Basicly you define the size of the original matrix, and insert new values for the "missing values". The new values inserted should all be of an unrealistic value. Then there is several ways to proceed from here.

You can take a defined area and apply a function to generate new height data based on the 1000 meter data, and the difference between neigbouring 1000 meter data. If the general terrain in the area is alpine, the you apply a "jagged" function with large differences. If the terrain is flat, the new values shall be very close to existing values. Basicly the changing of the height data should be done in Terrainview (?, other opinions ?), cause then you would have good control of the changes performed. Initially, the insertion of new height values could be done by other program like Dem2L, or MATLAB.

I'm no codemaker, so I'll leave it up to the experts behind Terrainview or Dem2L, but I will look into it through Matlab in the next 3 weeks.

I guess the experts might have several smart ways to expand this thoughts...

Weapons Free !

[87th_striker]

Zaggy, you beat me to it with some minutes... lol

[Zaggy]

Sorry Striker... But you were far more eloquant than I..

[Widowmaker]

ok.. a hires terrain as I'm doing for Iceland isn't a simple matter..

I don't have the time to explain too much now..

I'll just sum up the downsides to get you demotivated..

-huge terrain files, and huge fartile.raw
1.10 only compatibility

-alot more tiles to tile
-you need all new tiles drawn from a 250
meter perspective so standard Korea package is rendered useless

and you need at least 1 Ghz to run such a map
and a good vidcard

ok.. I took Iceland as it is a relatively small area and if all goes well doable in hires
still right now I would not reccomend such a venture to others.

I'm awaiting some new tools/ improvemts on tools to make it all work

all is still experimental and there are some pieces remaining untested for now..
like I don't know if a ground war is possible
(my gut feeling says yes.. but it might not be good enough)

I'll keep you all poste as soon as I can do more test

this will be after 1.10 release and the new Dem2LF.exe release

Widmak