Kurile island theater in Falcon3.0

Kurile islands theater

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Kurile island theater in Falcon3.0

Post by ccc » 2008-06-29 13:31:46

a talk with SM about Kurile island theater in 3.0..

here's the snap map - yellow box seems to be the old 3.0 theater coverage.. red box covers whole japanese Hokkido island.
Image


Q1 - though we have many unfinished theater mods, does it harm to
have one more mod in this area, to bring back the old falcon3.0 day memory?

Q2 - due to falcon4 campaign engine limit, hard to have any naval fighting. so the main ground war got to be happen..in russian kurile island or Japanese Hokkido island? russian invasion sounds more reasonable - yet fictional.

lastly, no serious. this thread just a discussion about the possibility. :D

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Post by ccc » 2008-09-24 14:10:39

47/144 or 48/144.. for map center point.?

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-09-24 16:33:31

Here is the Kurile islands screenshots from Terrainview.

Lat 47 lon 144
Image

Lat 48 lon 144
Image
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Post by ccc » 2008-09-25 01:06:22

oh yeah~ the upper one, 47/144 looks good - cover more Japanese Hokkido landmass, allow more russian invasion actions. :D

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-09-25 06:22:17

Oh I only now realize by looking your initial first post screenshot that perhaps you meant this to be 128 theater with that red box?
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Post by ccc » 2008-09-25 09:24:08

i think 64x64 is enough.

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-09 15:11:21

not 100% topic related.. i just saw the news reporting Japan scrambled four fighters to intercept TWO russian bombers flying close to japan- probably Hokkido.. the bombers are Backfire Tu22M!

geez.. bear is back.. days ago two Tu-160 flying to Venezula for joint exercise, now Tu22M resume Japan sea patrolling!

i still remember there're old Tu22 blinder in falcon3.0 kurile theater..

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-10 08:45:46

There is NO airbases in the Japan area, is this correct?

(ignore the two blue airbases, my bad)
Image
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-10 13:10:48

http://www.scramble.nl/jp.htm

in this page you can find, in Hokkaido japan, there's a base Chitose, housing two squadron of F-15J. you probably have to add it manually.

another base outside the theater coverage is Misawa, housing one F-2 and one F-4EJ, and one E-2 sq. in wartime these sq may move to Chitose for support.

i'll check my old falcon3.0 map later.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-10 14:42:41

Chitose (RJCJ)
Rwy 18L-36R, 18R-36L, 01L-19R. 01R-19L
42° 47' 45N 141° 39' 59E
Elev: 89 ft.

That airbase seems to be the only one on the theater area we have selected. Now... I'm all for realism, we cannot "fake" airbases... but damn that theater will be super boring with only one (1) airbase for BLUFOR :?
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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-10-10 17:33:47

There is at least 9 other runway systems on Hokkaido. Fire up google earth and check Transportation and Air.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-10 19:11:45

Good tip 87th_striker, thanks. Do you know if google earth can be configured to show the airport icons not matter what the zoom level is, or at least on very low zooms, so we don't have to actually go looking for the airports?

When I click the transportation - air, I can only see the Chitose airport... only when I zoom in and browse around I get to see the others.
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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-10 20:46:04

I have now added these following airbases:

Sapporo Airbase
Obihiro
ASAHIKAWA Airbase
KUSHIRO Airbase
NAKA-SHIBETSU Airbase
MEMAMBETSU Airbase
MOMBETSU Airbase
Hokkaido
Rishiri

Should be enough for BLUFOR squadrons to defend Japan from the Russian bear :)
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-11 07:39:19

glad you've solved airbase thing.. i probably lost my falcon3.0 maps. :?

BTW, for campaign setting..

easy - most ground fighting on small islands at NE of Hokkido, less ground war at NW of Hokkido as CIS amphibious landing ( like old day Falcon3.0 style)

moderate - multiple landing and occupation on Hokkido north and NW coast, US comes to support in first day.

hard- more red landings, more red ground forces, red attack aims at capital of Hokkido. US reinforcement comes late.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-16 18:33:33

Here is the Kurile theater, this is same as the tonights Georgia theater release, very early work in progress, only one campaign working and basically its for RV only (no user interface for AF/OF).

Download PMC_Kurile_Theater_v0.1.rar - 3.3mb.

Please don't post to other forums or news sites about this. Lets just give this a try and make better version which can be distributed more widely.
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-17 04:36:12

downloading! great job. i'll report back after testing kurile and Georgia.

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-17 14:18:23

install process is ok, 2d war running ok.

BUT, when try entering 3d world in both Kurile and Georgia camaign, all CTD.

The CTD seems come from failure of far tile texture? a similar bug found when PMC released latest round of theaters.

i try to run terrain rebuild tool > unable to found theater.l2, but it''s there in the folder..

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-17 16:26:15

Oops, just checked and found out that the LxNormalFix and in RV the SeasonSwitcher is not ran from the installer. My bad :)

You can run this manually without re-downloading the fixed installers which I'm uploading while writing this (new installers are available about 45min after this post is made). Here is how to do it.

- Start RV, choose Kurile theater and then exit sim.
- Run command for lxnormalfix and seasonswitcher like this:

Code: Select all

D:\games\f4\Utilities\LxNormalFix.exe @kurile @d:\games\f4\Theaters\kurile\terrdata
D:\games\f4\Utilities\seasonswitcher.exe -0
Naturally you must replace the paths with the proper paths from your computer.

Or if you cant get it to work, re-download the same v0.1 installer and run it again, it now launches lxnormalfix/seasonswitcher.

Sorry about that.
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-18 05:33:44

thanx SM.

i re-download new rar, both install ok. and i can enter campaign 3d world now - great job! 8-) :D

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-18 15:04:58

Good to hear you got it running. And now that you've played with it a bit to get feeling, what kind of campaigns would you build for this theater?

Since this isn't historical scenario, perhaps we should build one campaign (save0 - middle) as most realistic as possible to the potential war scenario that could be fought there. Then we need one nice and easy and one damn hard campaign with great game play value, like using a lot of the aircraft's and ground troops.

Also when you look at the Russian north-west terrain, that is very VERY barren as there is pretty much no roads or population, is this true to life or just some DCW data error?

I mean, Kurile theater is now fully linked, it was ridiculously quick to link as there was so little objectives. Ground unit movement wise this theater is complete (linking done). Next we would have to add those special objectives like SAM sites, nuke plants, military bases, harbors and these kind of things.

Anyways, throw me all the stuff that needs to be added to the campaign and terrain and I'll do my best to get them included.
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-19 12:47:55

man, im running short of free time these days..
Good to hear you got it running. And now that you've played with it a bit to get feeling, what kind of campaigns would you build for this theater?
yes there's lots work to do- no hurry.

Also when you look at the Russian north-west terrain, that is very VERY barren as there is pretty much no roads or population, is this true to life or just some DCW data error?
as for russian land - yes the population in fareast area is extremely low. i don't expect any war on russian soil.. any invader has to move a looong way to reach a small town, and thinning out their power.
Anyways, throw me all the stuff that needs to be added to the campaign and terrain and I'll do my best to get them included.
hope more ppl in the know can help. i'll check ground unit movement on Hokkido first.. before we adding more stuff.

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-22 14:14:52

flying su27 for few CAP missions.. only CTD when exit sim.

the AA war is good, waves of blue force heading kurile bases, and red ac patrolling everywhere.. several su24 rushing for antiship missions..

the red ground forces do not have any movement yet.

to sum up, the AA fighting is ok. :D

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-22 15:08:00

Yes our old friend CTD on sim exit is back. I believe the fix was to export all objectives and then import them back in.
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Post by ccc » 2008-10-22 16:05:17

yeah CTD after exiting falcon sim.. not campaign.

few more flights on su27, mig25, and mig29.. wow blue air power is so strong that it hits some AB on Kurile islands..

i intercept waves of B52s.. poor mig25 and its AA6A/B warhead..i got 50% hit and down 2 buff.

mig29 and su27 are quite maneuvorable, down several striking f16 and f18..

all the engagement are over sea, or near kurile coastline/islands, yes it brings back old day memory.. 8-)

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Post by Ripcord » 2008-10-23 03:04:44

Also when you look at the Russian north-west terrain, that is very VERY barren as there is pretty much no roads or population, is this true to life or just some DCW data error?
I lived there for almost 11 years, it is definately true. About 10 mln people live in the whole eastern half of Russia, from Baikal eastward. And there are WAY WAAAAAYYYYY too many roads shown on Sakhalin there on your map. The roads they do have are small, even gravel in spots.

Your real Russian opposition would not be on Sakhalin, anyway, but on the mainland -- heavy Navy presence in Primorskiy Krai and heavy air force presence in Khabarovsk krai up the road. I know there was a fighter base at Sokol, north of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, but all that is gone now -- not sure if there is much of anything out there in terms of active military. Didn't really notice. So if there is ever a battle for those southern Kurile Islands that the Japanese claim, then they could expect Russian opposition to come from mainland bases across the straits, not so much from Sakhalin.

Ripcord

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-23 09:26:50

Ripcord wrote: So if there is ever a battle for those southern Kurile Islands that the Japanese claim, then they could expect Russian opposition to come from mainland bases across the straits, not so much from Sakhalin.

Ripcord
ah, thanx for the info - so any fighter sq stationed in Kurile islands during cold war era? launching flights from russia mainland become a true long-range mission!

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-23 14:12:02

all red AB at southern part of Kurile island are disabled by blue air power!

F-14 is too powerful - my su27 and mig29 are unable to stop them, not to mention escorting striking su24.. i should adjust su24 loadout to kh31 first - to disable US carrier first.

well, after few hours' simming - the only red ABs left are those in inhand russia - and some B52/F111 are heading there :shock:

a bit tough for red side player - maybe chagne one or two US carriers/air wing as reinforcement later.

BTW due to DB bug, russian kab500kr bombs won't work - once my su24 sneaking into fleet, just unable to release bomb :roll:

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-23 14:55:22

some thoughts about ac type in different campaigns..

cold war '80. - make the air war counts more on SARH AAM.. F14 is the king in this era.

USSR - mig23/27/25/29/, su15/17/24/25/27, tu95/22M/, IL76/78, A50?. an12.

Jpn - F15J, F4EJ, F1(use F-5E?)
USAF - F15C/E?, F16. B52/B1/F111?(from Guan?)
USN - F14, F18, A6, A7.

future - air war is ARH AAM era/ aim120 vs R77, F22 is the king in this era.

CIS - mig29/35/31, su24/25/27+/30/33/34/35, tu95/22M/160, A50, IL76/8, An12.

Jpn - F15J, F4EJ, F-2
USAF - F15C/E, F16, F22, F35, B1/B2(from Guan)
USN- F18E/F, F35.

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-23 16:15:05


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Post by ccc » 2008-10-23 16:24:27

Far Eastern Military District - OOB 1997
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -orbat.htm

U/I HQ unit Il-22 Omsk
U/I Ind. Recce Regt Su-24MR, MiG-25R unknown
18th? (13th?) Ind. Shturmovik Aviation Regt Su-25 Galenki (Galinonki?)
U/I Ind. Mixed Aviation Regt An-12, An-26, Mi-8 Khabarovsk
U/I Ind. Recce/EW Helo Sqn Mi-8PPA, SMV unknown
U/I Fighter Aviation Division unknown
U/I Fighter Aviation Regt MiG-29 unknown
Possible second fighter regiment MiG-23MLD? inactive ??
Possible third fighter regiment MiG-23MLD? inactive ??
U/I Fighter Aviation Divisions
47th Fighter Aviation Regt Su-27 Zolotaya Dolina
308th Fighter Aviation Regt MiG-23MLD? Sovetskaya Gavan
U/I Fighter Aviation Regt MiG-23MLD? Khabarovsk
U/I Fighter Aviation Regt MiG-31, -25 Komsomolsk on Amur
U/I Fighter Aviation Regt MiG-31, -25 Petropavlovsk
U/I Fighter Aviation Regt MiG-23, -29? Yelizovo
U/I Bomber Aviation Division unknown
U/I Bomber Aviation Regt Su-24 Komsomolsk on Amur
U/I Bomber Aviation Regt Su-24 Verino
U/I Bomber Aviation Regt Su-24 unknown

summary - main combat ac/1997 are = su24/25/su27, mig23MLD, mig25/25R/29/31

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-24 15:14:54

more campaign flying -

most RED airbases are disabled!!

i think Blue side got too many striking airpower, many bomber sq, F111 and tornado :roll:

also too many F14 sq - overwhelming AA power.

and, missing F-15 in this test campaign.

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Post by toonces » 2008-10-24 16:11:29

Do you have enough SAMs on the red airfields? Have you tried flying the campaign from the red side at all?

It's hard for the Soviets to get parity without numerical advantage (in my opinion). You need to have, like, a 3:1 Red advantage in air for it to really be a fair fight given the better technical capabilities of the blue air.

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-25 04:37:17

i am just testing default kurile campaign.. and report my observation.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-25 06:31:26

I believe the SAM's to SAM sites and SAM's to airbases script was run for Kurile theater, but there is no additional air defense sites placed as I have no real life reference of such.

If someone paints a map with all the army bases, headquarters, air defense sites and nuke plants etc, I'll add them. Anyone interested?
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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-10-25 10:09:28

Here are the Google Earth links to known SAM-related installations. Download the kmz to your google earth, and a get pretty good picture. Sean O'Connors blog are worth reading. The KMZ cover known SAM's around the globe. Enjoy....

http://geimint.blogspot.com/2008/06/wor ... rview.html

http://imintandanalysis.googlepages.com ... erview.kmz

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Post by ccc » 2008-10-25 11:05:03

SM- may you activiate TE? it help checking road network on Hokkido.

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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-25 11:26:41

Thanks 87th_striker, appreciated.

Yeah ccc, I'll check TE and fix it.
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Post by Snake Man » 2008-10-25 12:51:04

Hey ccc, Kurile Theater TE works just fine in the current release :)
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Post by 87th_striker » 2008-10-26 09:48:10

Can't help it, but after studying the theater and surronding areas, I think the whole island of Hokkaido should be included, and the theater moved much more west, Falcon 3.0 or not.

You would loose all those large areas of sea, a little bit of Sakhalin, but gain more of Primorsky in Russia. You might even get some of China in, if unlucky... hehe.

Anyway, it would make it more usable and interresting. As for the infrastructure, the dataset used for the roads are of course ancient. Do a crossreference with Google Earth. You will find that what is seen as untouched tundra, will be filled with logging roads since our current dataset was established. WWith the logging roads, new roads connecting the diffferent areas of eastern Russia have been established.

Basicly one should consider harvesting data into ArcMap, making new e00 files for the roads, then import these into the new theaters.

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Post by Sherlock » 2008-10-26 18:31:36

87th_striker wrote:Basicly one should consider harvesting data into ArcMap, making new e00 files for the roads, then import these into the new theaters.

How does one go about learning how to perform these steps?
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