Korean campaign ground force levels

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Snake Man
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Korean campaign ground force levels

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-06 12:36:31

Korean campaign ground force levels, how much ground troops are there in the official campaigns. By official I mean SP 4.2 inherited RV, OF and AF campaigns.

There is the forces on the beginning, then possible reinforcements according to trigger file activation (or merely a time-out? I don't know).

I'm looking for this information so we can have some idea what is good amount of ground units in user made campaigns.

There was once a feeling that I have too much ground units in some of my campaigns, however now I have just ran (still running) the default Korea in AF and holy smokes there is so much ground units its crazy, I mean my own campaign creations pale to comparison. I would never had imagined that the stock default campaigns are so packed with ground units.

Do anyone know? Anyone made some lists of all them?

Here is the list you can gather easily, the units of course means battalion's, brigades and squadrons.

SP 4.2 campaign\save\save0.cam has: 919 units.
SP 4.2 campaign\save\save1.cam has: 682 units.
SP 4.2 campaign\save\save2.cam has: 725 units.

OF campaign\save\save0.cam has: 920 units.
OF campaign\save\save1.cam has: 574 units.
OF campaign\save\save2.cam has: 546 units.

RV campaign\save\save0.cam has: 1163 units.
RV campaign\save\save1.cam has: 815 units.
RV campaign\save\save2.cam has: 739 units.

AF data is unavailable due .cam files being different format and cant be read with TacEdit.

Also can we put this all into perspective, 1 battalion of M1A1 tanks is... how many tanks actually? 1 battalion of Infantry M16 is how many men? etc
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Re: Korean campaign ground force levels

Post by ccc » 2008-11-06 14:03:09

Also can we put this all into perspective, 1 battalion of M1A1 tanks is... how many tanks actually? 1 battalion of Infantry M16 is how many men? etc
info from wiki..

a brigade has 2-5 battalions, or regiments.

an infantry battalion has 500-1500 men in several companies..so, in 3d world, one M16/AK47 soldier could be equal to 20-50 men.

an armour battalion has 1 HQ, 3 platoon. .. 14-16 tanks?

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Re: Korean campaign ground force levels

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-06 14:13:23

I scanned through my F4_Theaters\Documents directory and found partial list of units in the database. Here it is.

Brigade - Armored/Infantry; can be 5 battalions

battalion - armored - M1A1:
10 x 3 m1a1, 3 x 3 m2a3, 3 M2A2 BSFV, 3 M6 BL, 3 M106.

battalion - infantry - M-16:
6 x 3 M-16, 3 Jeep, 3 x 3 Lt. Mtr, 3 Stinger Sqd, 3 M977, 3 120mm Mtr, 3 M47 Dragon, 3 TOW, 3 120mm Mtr.

battalion - infantry - Recon Squad:
3 Recon Squad, 2 x 3 HMMWV, 3 HQ M16, 3 x 3 M-16, 2 x 3 Stinger Sqd, 2 x 3 HMMWV-MG, 3 TOW, 3 120mm Mtr, 3 HMMWV TOW, 3 M977.

battalion - infantry - AK-47:
9 x 2 AK47, 3 x 2 82mm Mtr, 3 SA-7, 3 x 3 AT-3.

battalion - infantry - AK-47: (second in database)
10 x 2 AK47, 2 x 2 120mm Mtr, 2 HN-5A Squad, 3 ZU-23, 2 AT-3, 3 KrAz T 255B.

battalion - infantry - Motor Rifle BMP-2:
4 x 3 BMP-2, 3 x 3 BMP-3, 3 ZSU23-4, 3 BMP-CMD, 3 MDK-2-D, 2 x 3 T-72, 3 SA-9, 2 x 3 120mm Mtr, 3 2S1.

battalion - marine - Elite Recon Squad:
1 Recon Squad, 3 M47 Dragon, 8 x 1 M-16, 1 Lt. Mtr, 1 Stinger Sqd, 1 TOW, 3 M-16, 1 120mm Mtr, 3 Lt. Mtr.

battalion - marine - Naval Inf BTR-80:
11 x 2 BTR-80, 2 SA-16, 2 BRDM-AT, 2 x 2 120mm Mtr, 2 BMP-3.

battalion - marine - USMC AAV7-a1:
3 x 3 AAV7-A1, 3 AAVC7-A1, 3 LAV/AD, 2 LAV/C2, 6 x 3 LAV-25, 3 LAV/AT, 2 LAV/R, 3 LAV/M, 3 Recon Squad.

battalion - mechanized - BTR-60:
5 x 2 BTR-60, 2 BRDM-AT, 2 x 2 82mm Mtr, 2 SA-7, 2 M-1992, 3 x 2 T-55, 2 KrAz T 255B, 2 ZIL-135.

battalion - mechanized - M-113:
7 x 3 M113, 3 K200-AD, 1 Mistral-V, 4 x 3 M48A5, 3 M106, 3 M901, 3 M977.

battalion - mechanized - M2A3:
7 x 3 M2A3, 2 x 3 M1A1, 2 M1A1, 3 M2A2 BSFV, 3 M6 BL, 2 x 3 M3A3, 3 M106, 3 M977.

battalion - mechanized - VTT-323:
7 x 2 VTT-323, 2 82mm Mtr, 1 BMP-CMD, 2 x 2 T-62, 3 T-62, 2 BRDM-AT, 2 KrAz T 255B, 2 BMP-2.


--- fire range
Artillery:
152mm Arty - 18
155 Gun - 17
2A65 - 18
2S19 - 18
2S3 - 18
D-30 - 12
M109 - 17
M110 - 18

Mortars:
120mm Mtr - 5
60mm MTR - 3
81mm Mtr - 5
82mm Mtr - 5

Rocket:
BM21 - 15
BM24 - 9
BM9A52 - 9
MLRS - 24
SCUD - 119

The fire ranges are not related to the topic, but hey, now they are saved in the forum so maybe someone searches this info and now it can be found. Anyways.
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Re: Korean campaign ground force levels

Post by molnibalage » 2008-11-06 18:58:34

The inventroy of battalions in all Falcon version are wrong. Qty. of AA and mobile SAM vehicles are overmodelled on both side but especially on the blue side. The DPRK army size is also undermodelled and the structure also bad. Changing by the difficulty slider ratio between the combat and air defense units in one armored / mechnanized battalion should be almost constant.

The opposing forces IRL in 1990. (not olny ground units)

- MiG-23ML ~ 46
- MiG-21PF/PFM ~ 120 -160
- Su-7 ~ 20
- Su-25 ~ 36
- J-6 ~ 180
- Q-5 ~ 40 (some references mention150 but 40 is likely)
- J-5 ~ 240
- H-5 ~ 80
- Mi-24D ~ 50
- An-2 ~ 270
- Mi-8/17 ~ 70
- An-24 ~ 10
- MiG-29 ~ 22-24 (one regiment)
(MiG-21bis ~ 40-60 (2-3 regiment) bougth from Kazakstan around in eraly-middle of ’90s

~ 850 fighter / attack / bomber AC , ~280 transport AC, ~50 attack helo & ~ 70 tranport / light attack helo.

RoKAF:

- F-5E ~ 200 (replaced the A variant in the middle-late ’80s)
- F-4DSK / ESK ~ 120 (ratio beween D and E version?)
- AH-1F/J ~ 65
- MD-500 ~ 65
- RF-4C ~ 27
- RF-5A ~ 10
- C-130 ~ 10
- UH-1 ~ 20

~ 320 fighter / attack AC, ~ 65 combat helo, 65 recon helo, ~ 37 recon AC, 10 transport AC,
~ 20 trasport helo


USAF in South - Korea:

- F-16A 2 x 24 pieces in Kunsan AB
- A-10A 1 x 18 pieces in Suwon AB
- F-4E 2 x 24 pieces in Osan and Tageu AB

USAF in Japan:

- F-15A 3 x 24 pieces in Kadena AB
- F-16A 1 x 24 pieces in Misawa AB
- F-4E 1 x 24 pieces in Misawa AB
- RF-4C 1 x 18 pieces in Kadena AB (moved to Korea in october of ’89 but to where?)

US NAVY:

One carrier group. I had exact info from ’89 but I didn’t copy the real state copletly. My goal was make a very colourful camapign, so I used as many type aircraft as I could. (I plan to use the new Nimitz by Nightfalcon.)

- F-14B 12 pieces
- F/A-18A 12 pieces
- A-6E 12 pieces
- A-7E 12 pieces
- EA-6B 4 (6?) pieces
- E-2C 4 pieces
- S-3B 8 (?) pieces


DPRK ground forces :

- 4500 SP artillery
- 2300 rocket launcher
- 3700 main battle tank
- 2500 APC
- 2300 towed artillery

Combined forces of RoK:

- 900 SP artillery
- 140 missile launcher
- 1800 main battle tank
- 1550 APC
- 3500 towed artillery


DPRK air defense:

- Around 6000-7000 AAA ( Most of them are obsalated, KS-12/19 and S-60 types)
- SA-2 ~ 240 launcher
- SA-3 ~ 60 launcher
- SA-5 ~ 24 -30 launcher
- Huge qty. of SA-7 and much smaller from SA-14/16. Likely DPRK doesn't have SA-16 only SA-14.

RoK air defense

- Improved Hawk and Nike – Hercules systems with ~ 100 launcher.


3. Opposing forces and order of battle in the FreeFalcon 5.


ADS units should be positioned to protecting the key objects, important airbases. Positon of SAM is not follow the reality. The FLOT is totally undefended, IRL is defended by total length...
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Snake Man
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Re: Korean campaign ground force levels

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-10 13:19:55

Today I ran some tests on Korean campaign. I added bunch of tank, mech, infantry, artillery and engineering battalions on both sides, there were quite a lot of units, total numbers in TacEdit came to 1800. When running it ingame, there was few times when the game just halted really as the ground units tarted to move/surrender (many surrendered in the campaign starting minutes).

I cant recall any F4 campaign made by me so far that would have caused such sluggish behavior or really a complete halt. Yes the campaign ran OK on 1x time when the initial surrender "phase" was over, but to my memory, this was the first time I made F4 campaign to halt because of ground unit placement.

Testing continues, this I believe don't give much results yet, just one test on badly placed ground units. I'll try to continue testing and will post feedback here.
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Re: Korean campaign ground force levels

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-27 08:19:05

I'm sorry the initial OF/RV data was wrong as I loaded the .cam files with Tacedit reading SP4.2 database, now I have updated the first post with correct values from the individual OF/RV databases. Now the unit amounts for OF and RV are correct, no more 8 units in RV etc.

Apparently if you load RV campaign file with SP4.2 database in use (Tacedit properties), it misses most of the units as they have different ID or something else changed.
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