Page 1 of 2
Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2007-05-01 16:23:26
by Snake Man
Today I was playing Europe campaign in RV like mad and wanted to see how quickly I could "disable the enemy" by bringing down its supply level so the trigger file would kick in.
Well looking at ingame the fuel and supply levels are pretty much 100 all the time, at one point there was small drop as I left the campaign run in 16x overnight. I checked Frugals forum about it and people have pretty much the same observations there, all say that supply never drops, some speculate that the UI is porked and some say that the whole supply system is porked, like not working.
I checked few times my savegame .cam file with tacedit to bypass the UI supply display and sure enough supply just keep at 99 all the time. Of course Europe is whopping theater, but surely we knocked out some factories to bring at least SOME adjustment for the levels, but no. They just kept on 99 all the time.
So I guess this topic brings up a question; does anyone have any facts about the fuel and supply levels in campaign?
Posted: 2007-05-01 16:50:15
by i_hawk
I asssume you fly with AF and i don't know it so well. in RV (and I'm sure also in OF) there is a line in .cfg file:
// Power stations affect fuel/supply generation.
set g_bPowerGrid 1
This suppose to subtract supply when power stations are hit/destroyed.
Posted: 2007-05-01 16:51:14
by phoenix
Good Question
Been testing this out in all three versions and RV seems to be the only version i have seen with proper supply graphs...
AF and OF seem to stay at 100% in graphs for fuel and supply no matter how many enemy factories get hit...
Many times i tested this in korea by gaining air superiority and then going after every factory\depot using LGB"s.
Seems either the supply graph is broken or the F4 supply system cannot keep tally on what factories\depots have been hit
ED from Lead Pursuit said once on frugals that its based on a POINTS system whereby destruction of certain factories has a knock on effect on factories in the immidiate area
Would dearly love to see this fixed or made work better so as factories and depots could become legitimate targets,also just to say ive never seen army bases make a difference either which is a shame because in reality they would be high priority targets...
The RP5 manual has some good reading about the supply system and im nearly sure when i flew RP5 the supply system worked
From SP3 onwards it seems to have been broke or taken out for some reason (maybe causes untold bugs) but could be wrong...
Posted: 2007-05-01 17:23:29
by Snake Man
Yes sorry, I was using RedViper, first post updated. I do have the g_bPowerGrid set to 1, still no effect (but hey, maybe Europe is just way too big for 4 day worth of fighting to cause drop on supply).
Posted: 2007-05-01 18:48:50
by i_hawk
S-M do you have a box with "Realistic attrition" checked under RV config editor\campaign in F4Patch? this might also affect the way code is calculating damage to vehicles\objects... but anyway i'll try to check this deeper with RV DB/campaign experts...
Posted: 2007-05-01 20:31:17
by JimG
Hi,
The problem is the bar graphs in the GUI do not reflect the actual supply amounts for either side. They show something but I don't know what.
In order to see what the actual supply, fuel and replace amounts are, you have to save your cam file and open it using tacedit.
Then go down to the teams tab and select your primary teams. For KTO they are team 2 (ROK) & team 6 (DPRK).
Select the "other" tab and you can see the actual values.
I can tell you that the supply system in RV works as advertised just by watching these numbers during tests. I hope this helps.
Posted: 2007-05-01 21:11:01
by Snake Man
Hi JimG. Can you tell me whats the difference of teams -> other: availability fuel/supply and then teams -> stats supply/fuel levels?
I was quoting the "stats" window levels on my first post.
Posted: 2007-05-02 14:44:27
by molnibalage
In EVERY Falcon version, the supply system absolutly don't working.
In a capmaign I destroyed the half of the factories and 2/3 of depos and ports and arefineries and some power plant, and nothing changed.
Can fix it anyone this or this problem is "exe coded"?
Posted: 2007-05-02 16:07:08
by i_hawk
molnibalage wrote:In EVERY Falcon version, the supply system absolutly don't working.
I don't think that is true for RV. was confirmed just above by JimG... maybe with large theaters it actually needs more time... dono.
Posted: 2007-05-02 17:46:19
by phoenix
Yeah,
In RV Larger the theater the longer it prolly takes to become clear in the graphs...
But supply system definitely works as jim and hawk said...
Uhm, kinda funny but me wonders if FF team might spill the beans on how they got it working
And while your at it will ya give LP a call as they cant seem to fix it either
Allthough on second thoughts ya better not as christ only knows what they may break if they do fix it...
Prolly get a fully working supply system but no air-air radar
Ugh: We are proud to present patch 10.12 for Allied Force and are glad to say that we finally found a fix for the supply graphs...
HOWEVER unfortunately the whole radar suite of the F16 got fucked up so you guys will have to use good ol mk1 eyeball to hit the NOW FIXED supply system...
Whuaaagh...
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Posted: 2007-05-03 08:35:52
by molnibalage
i_hawk wrote:molnibalage wrote:In EVERY Falcon version, the supply system absolutly don't working.
I don't think that is true for RV. was confirmed just above by JimG... maybe with large theaters it actually needs more time... dono.
So, the supply sys. works correctly but the graphs show wrong values?
I will try a thing. With tacedit I will set EVERY factory, depo, and power station status to "destroyed" and I wait to change the values. I think, this experiment will be interesting..
Posted: 2007-05-04 08:13:30
by molnibalage
So I did the experiment, but in the game nothing changed. EVERY object that I set to destroy status with tacedit in the game, the object status was 100%. Why? Tacedit dosen't work with FF4??
If I place a ground unit or squadron it works. I tried the chaged the spot time, but didn't work too correctly... Interesting.
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-07-31 10:40:28
by Snake Man
Any year 2010 update for this supply issue?
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-08-03 14:08:50
by Ed_1
old thread but what the hell , Frugal down.
molnibalage That won't work AFAIK . the supply data is in the frc file . I went through what your doing long ago . I think destroying them in can does not store it into history (I might be off here as its been long time)
What I did to test this out is
1) set all bonuses off by player (falcon4.aii) , then I destroyed all objectives in game with high supply values set in there objective data .
Then I watched the raw data of supply/fuel over time .
What I found was supplys do go way down, even to point of no flights taking off from AB even though ac are there . (you can tell this is reason as as soon as aiflift lands there flights start again.
The graphs just don't represent the data properly or it gets avg out to much over time (doesn't show dips right) .
Oh all those config lines , power grid and realistic attrition are set on by default in AF .
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-08-03 15:36:00
by Snake Man
So if we setup a trigger file to watch for supply levels, the actual levels does work in-game but the graphics bar shows false information?
Reference
Iran save0.tri file - DRAFT topic.
Code: Select all
// Coalition has bombed Iran back to the Stone Age-they sue for peace
//
#IF_EVENT_PLAYED 12
#ELSE
#IF_SUPPLY 6 L 20 // if supply level for Team 6 drops to less than 20
#DO_EVENT 12 // do event 12 if conditions in line above are met
#END_GAME 12 // end game
#ELSE
#IF_FORCE_RATIO A 6 2 L 3 // if force ratio between Team #6 versus Team #2 drops less than 3:1 (guess on 3:1 part here)
#DO_EVENT 12 // do event 12 if conditions in line above are met
#END_GAME 12 // end game
#ENDIF
#ENDIF
#ENDIF
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-08-03 17:21:05
by Ed_1
Snake Man wrote:So if we setup a trigger file to watch for supply levels, the actual levels does work in-game but the graphics bar shows false information?
Reference
Iran save0.tri file - DRAFT topic.
Code: Select all
// Coalition has bombed Iran back to the Stone Age-they sue for peace
//
#IF_EVENT_PLAYED 12
#ELSE
#IF_SUPPLY 6 L 20 // if supply level for Team 6 drops to less than 20
#DO_EVENT 12 // do event 12 if conditions in line above are met
#END_GAME 12 // end game
#ELSE
#IF_FORCE_RATIO A 6 2 L 3 // if force ratio between Team #6 versus Team #2 drops less than 3:1 (guess on 3:1 part here)
#DO_EVENT 12 // do event 12 if conditions in line above are met
#END_GAME 12 // end game
#ENDIF
#ENDIF
#ENDIF
not sure if triggers work or what interval of time supplys need to be low .I never tested this aspect only what results when the supply/fuel got real low .
What I remember is when the supplies got low this stalled AI from launching missions and resuppling units , So what I saw was a slow down in AI when supply/fuel went low (real low) .
yes graph did not show this .
Edit: I just looked at some of old tests and supply values were below 10 in many time intervals (even had few 0 values .
This is with modified data though , not sure on stock cam files. the fuel values though never went that low . and again the supply/fuel % show vey high so not sure if trigger uses raw supply/fuel values or % ones (% ones is used for graph AFAIK )
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-08-18 14:29:44
by toonces
I posted this a while back.
I can't remember exactly what I did, but I think I eliminated all enemy air and SAMs and then "bombed the enemy into the stone age" in Panama.
If we don't know what the graphs depict, then we don't know. Does it really matter? As long as supply and fuel can be degraded, that's the important point for trigger writing. Not having an accurate graph can just be attributed to fog of war, poor intelligence, etc.
Here's what I was able to acheive in Panama. I have a lot more posted on the FF dev forums- I'll see if I can dig it up over the next few weeks. My internet here on the ship doesn't really work well enough to browse the FF forums due to the bandwidth.
![Image](http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii123/toonces3/panamasupplyday4.jpg)
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-02 00:02:20
by demer928
Hmmm.................this is from IRAN Hammerfall scenario start up work.It is important that I get it working to provide a viable EndGame through attrition.
demer
(@Toonce's, I haven't forgotton the Panama attrit files that I sent you,reviewing them now...
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
)
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-04 15:10:33
by Ed_1
Just small update on my previous post, triggers do seem to work, I get China and Russia entering war by 3 day with no provocation to them.
I have changed just about every data file dealing with supply/fuel to get it even close to working correct or what I would say correct IMO (seeing both ac and ground units needing supply and a slowness in action untill a supply comes . this can be seen with ac tasking in groups when supply gets renewed . The graph (intel) is still not right though, this for sure needs code work here ,it just does not represent whats really happening from player point of view .
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-04 21:06:06
by demer928
Ed_1 wrote:Just small update on my previous post, triggers do seem to work, I get China and Russia entering war by 3 day with no provocation to them.
I have changed just about every data file dealing with supply/fuel to get it even close to working correct or what I would say correct IMO (seeing both ac and ground units needing supply and a slowness in action untill a supply comes . this can be seen with ac tasking in groups when supply gets renewed . The graph (intel) is still not right though, this for sure needs code work here ,it just does not represent whats really happening from player point of view .
Agreed, the triggers work:i.e.#SET_MINIMUM_SUPPLIES 2 100 100 100
We need to manipulate\hack the .aii file to reduce the DataRate Multiplier so that they do not keep getting refueled\resupplied to XXX%.
Also the total available "SUPPLY\FUEL" is calculated IMHO (by the VU2 Engine) on the Factory's\Refinery's\NukPlants...etc.that the TEAM control's,so if you have a "HUGE" theater,say ODS,then you will
never attrit their fuel\supply...
The GUI\Graph is wrong, only because in .cam\TacEdit the team Starting Stat's are set to 100.
You would need to set the Team's Starting Stats to 0 and then set the Current Stats to what you desire.
I do not believe that CODEC's tool was designed to
actually EDIT the .cam file, But, to
SEE what was going on!!!!
demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-04 23:43:14
by Ed_1
demer928 wrote:Ed_1 wrote:Just small update on my previous post, triggers do seem to work, I get China and Russia entering war by 3 day with no provocation to them.
I have changed just about every data file dealing with supply/fuel to get it even close to working correct or what I would say correct IMO (seeing both ac and ground units needing supply and a slowness in action untill a supply comes . this can be seen with ac tasking in groups when supply gets renewed . The graph (intel) is still not right though, this for sure needs code work here ,it just does not represent whats really happening from player point of view .
Agreed, the triggers work:i.e.#SET_MINIMUM_SUPPLIES 2 100 100 100
We need to manipulate\hack the .aii file to reduce the DataRate Multiplier so that they do not keep getting refueled\resupplied to XXX%.
Also the total available "SUPPLY\FUEL" is calculated IMHO (by the VU2 Engine) on the Factory's\Refinery's\NukPlants...etc.that the TEAM control's,so if you have a "HUGE" theater,say ODS,then you will
never attrit their fuel\supply...
The GUI\Graph is wrong, only because in .cam\TacEdit the team Starting Stat's are set to 100.
You would need to set the Team's Starting Stats to 0 and then set the Current Stats to what you desire.
I do not believe that CODEC's tool was designed to
actually EDIT the .cam file, But, to
SEE what was going on!!!!
demer
I have already done all that and more . the data-rate multipier in falcon4.aii I have went as low as 0.01 from stock 1.0-1.5 also i have killed the bonus points way down , again factor of 10x . I have edited all or most of the objective datarate valves so factorys,nuke plants, etc have values more than 100 as many have 400-600 but reduced non supply types . with graph its just porked but I can see actual supply/fuel valves stored in FRC and they go down to 0 many times/places . I also have been messing with supply/fuel/losses of objectives in cam file but with so many objectives its bit much editing and getting good results .
You can mess with teams stuff and as you mention you can edit start amounts so the graph starts low but it still progresses up pretty fast over time , like a day or so an it up to where old values were .
Whats also interesting is you can raise the start supply/fuel in other tab (stock is like 1000 , you can raise that too and whats interesting the engine eats up the supply/fuel real fast , even a 5000 values goes back to normal levels in few hrs .
I agree the graph does not show absolute valves but more comparison of supply/fuel to objectives, units ,squadrons factored by amount . so if you lose ac and ground units you don't need high actual supply/fuel to get graph to show 3/4-full .
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-12 19:39:29
by demer928
Have you tried to reduce the DataRate of Non-WarProduction Objective's???? and if so 'did it reduce the Supply "POOL"
![Huh? ???](./images/smilies/huh.gif)
I believe.....Could be wrong though....that starting Team relation's effect the amount of supply available in the pool i.e. it is an aggregate of ALL related Teams.This idea is from the Leak, and doe's not relate to FF.
demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-12 20:43:17
by Ed_1
demer928 wrote:Have you tried to reduce the DataRate of Non-WarProduction Objective's???? and if so 'did it reduce the Supply "POOL"
![Huh? ???](./images/smilies/huh.gif)
I believe.....Could be wrong though....that starting Team relation's effect the amount of supply available in the pool i.e. it is an aggregate of ALL related Teams.This idea is from the Leak, and doe's not relate to FF.
demer
The first thing I did was adjust datarate of supply objectives and non supply ones down, for example lowered bridges from 100>30 . I didn't lower non supply to 0 though , kept it up a little as was told you need a little bit supply/fuel datarate to keep units moving .
Well its hard to say for sure as its so dynamic but yes each change i made did alter rates, same with lower bonus and multipler in falcon4.aii .
On fuel/supply values you can raise start no higher than 8000 or so , thats what code says is max amount and forget off top of head but each point = 10,000lb of fuel or something
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-12 21:36:56
by demer928
Okay........So..let's say we reduce ALL Objective's DataRate to 1 or 2. I believe Zero is
not a GOOD integer in this instance. That SHOULD slow some thing's down, I would think. I agree that the GU's need a "COOKIE" to keep moving to PRIMARY\Secondary Objective's as is Defined (Not sure,after 12 year's, if it is the Priority or the Bonus....HAHAHA!!!).
I have removed,in test's, both the .aii and .cfg file's and let the Code handle it by herself with mixed result's.
Agreed, on the Start Value's........Think that was in there from MP. I.E. Awac's Fly's Alway's...you are never without Weapon's or Sam's...your GU's are never without supply......etc,etc.,etc...... GamePlay is VERY important!!!! Otherwise it Suck's....HAHAHA.
"On fuel/supply values you can raise start no higher than 8000 or so , thats what code says is max amount and forget off top of head but each point = 10,000lb of fuel or something"
each point = 10,000lb of fuel or something
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
WHOA!!!! Just checked....correct!!!! There's a start!!!!
Regard's
demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-12 22:15:34
by Ed_1
demer928 wrote:Okay........So..let's say we reduce ALL Objective's DataRate to 1 or 2. I believe Zero is
not a GOOD integer in this instance. That SHOULD slow some thing's down, I would think. I agree that the GU's need a "COOKIE" to keep moving to PRIMARY\Secondary Objective's as is Defined (Not sure,after 12 year's, if it is the Priority or the Bonus....HAHAHA!!!).
I have removed,in test's, both the .aii and .cfg file's and let the Code handle it by herself with mixed result's.
Agreed, on the Start Value's........Think that was in there from MP. I.E. Awac's Fly's Alway's...you are never without Weapon's or Sam's...your GU's are never without supply......etc,etc.,etc...... GamePlay is VERY important!!!! Otherwise it Suck's....HAHAHA.
"On fuel/supply values you can raise start no higher than 8000 or so , thats what code says is max amount and forget off top of head but each point = 10,000lb of fuel or something"
each point = 10,000lb of fuel or something
![Shocked :shock:](./images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
WHOA!!!! Just checked....correct!!!! There's a start!!!!
Regard's
demer
I didn't go that low on data rate but i did lower many of the default 100 valve ones by a factor . I left the datarate multiplier at factory MPS rate (1.0) which worked ok . My idea originally was to have the supply/fuel objectives datarate up there and lower all rest so there be more of a result of taking out supply/fuel objectives and have it show some results in campaign engine. This part does seem to work, As I have mentioned above things can really slow down but Iuel supply graph is porked .
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-12 22:20:00
by Hustler
Data rate of 1 or 2 for all Objectives is wrong. Data rate of 1 is for single runway Airbases and 2 is for dual rate Airbases.
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 00:02:39
by demer928
Hustler wrote:Data rate of 1 or 2 for all Objectives is wrong. Data rate of 1 is for single runway Airbases and 2 is for dual rate Airbases.
and??? Why is a Village set at 100..??
We do'not fully understand how this F'n* Calculator work's. Hmmpfh!!!
I sometime's lay awake at night,trying to go through Mike's Math\Logic for the VUv2 Engine.
demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 02:57:55
by Hustler
I don't know what you mean by 'we', I understand exactly how this works.
There are many numbers that are set to a value that may be questionable, but that field has to be filled in. I think the original values were set to ensure that it would be near impossible to deplete your resources down to a point your Campaign shuts down. What has now happened is that everyone just uses that number, because they don't know what it does. Add to that the communities penchant for cramming more and more objectives into a Campaign, which just compounds the inflated data, and your left wondering why you can't effect the production capacity of your Campaign.
demer928 wrote: We do'not fully understand how this F'n* Calculator work's. Hmmpfh!!!demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 13:06:49
by Ed_1
If you look at the fuel/supply formulas the datarate gets divided in most of them so if you want a objective to give decent supply going to low would be bad an not rely on a supply-fuel objective to produce much .
I am no expert in C++ to say what the value needed there for different conditions . For sure the values have been altered to give more supply then needed so no starving of campaign engine and with more and more objectives placed on map or larger maps you can see the fuel-supply pool gets high. There a max value and it throws the rest away from what I can see, at least in certain conditions .
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 15:46:57
by Hustler
Right on Ed.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 16:45:56
by Sherlock
Interesting discussion gents.
So for the larger theaters (128x128) what variable names for objectives should be set lower? And to what suggested value(s)?
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 21:19:08
by Hustler
How much do you need?
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 21:48:22
by Sherlock
Hustler wrote:How much do you need?
When you do an objectives dump from tacedit to csv file format. What objective variables in that csv spreadsheet need to be tweaked and to what value(s)? That's what I meant. Is that doable?
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-13 22:13:26
by Hustler
Now your talking about something entirely different. We are discussing the data rate as defined in f4Browse. There is a relationship, but you guys have failed to figure it out.
Sherlock wrote:Hustler wrote:How much do you need?
When you do an objectives dump from tacedit to csv file format. What objective variables in that csv spreadsheet need to be tweaked and to what value(s)? That's what I meant. Is that doable?
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-14 00:46:58
by demer928
Hustler wrote:I don't know what you mean by '
we', I understand exactly how this works.
There are many numbers that are set to a value that may be questionable, but that field has to be filled in. I think the original values were set to ensure that it would be near impossible to deplete your resources down to a point your Campaign shuts down. What has now happened is that everyone just uses that number, because they don't know what it does. Add to that the communities penchant for cramming more and more objectives into a Campaign, which just compounds the inflated data, and your left wondering why you can't effect the production capacity of your Campaign.
demer928 wrote: We do'not fully understand how this F'n* Calculator work's. Hmmpfh!!!demer
WE=PMC..........!!!!!!
Second part.......
totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MP set it so that AWAC's Flys alway's, you alway's have a Weapon,you alway's have Fuel\Supply.....etc. You and I, "WE" know this.
If you take a small theater like Panama, (not posted @ you Hustler just for Public Knowledge) and Manipulate\Hack your DB\.cam\.tri file's then you
can get to an Attritted EndGame.
Doing this in a larger Theater would take some work.
Why???? 'cause in a Theater like IRAN\ODS\VIETNAM, where you have 7000+ Objective's , they are ALL (the Objective's) adding to the TEAM POOL!!!!!!
demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-14 01:25:34
by Hustler
7000 Objectives is totally asinine, if you can't build a theater with less than 2000 Objectives, you should stay at home and play with the dog.
demer928 wrote:Hustler wrote:I don't know what you mean by '
we', I understand exactly how this works.
There are many numbers that are set to a value that may be questionable, but that field has to be filled in. I think the original values were set to ensure that it would be near impossible to deplete your resources down to a point your Campaign shuts down. What has now happened is that everyone just uses that number, because they don't know what it does. Add to that the communities penchant for cramming more and more objectives into a Campaign, which just compounds the inflated data, and your left wondering why you can't effect the production capacity of your Campaign.
demer928 wrote: We do'not fully understand how this F'n* Calculator work's. Hmmpfh!!!demer
WE=PMC..........!!!!!!
Second part.......
totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MP set it so that AWAC's Flys alway's, you alway's have a Weapon,you alway's have Fuel\Supply.....etc. You and I, "WE" know this.
If you take a small theater like Panama, (not posted @ you Hustler just for Public Knowledge) and Manipulate\Hack your DB\.cam\.tri file's then you
can get to an Attritted EndGame.
Doing this in a larger Theater would take some work.
Why???? 'cause in a Theater like IRAN\ODS\VIETNAM, where you have 7000+ Objective's , they are ALL (the Objective's) adding to the TEAM POOL!!!!!!
demer
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-14 01:26:09
by Sherlock
Hustler wrote: There is a relationship, but you guys have failed to figure it out.
So....
is it a state secret or what?
Hustler wrote:7000 Objectives is totally asinine, if you can't build a theater with less than 2000 Objectives, you should stay at home and play with the dog.
But doing a 128x128 theater with just 2,000 objectives is going to make for a pretty sparse theater don't you think? (since the area is 4x as large as a 64x64).
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-14 01:39:54
by Ed_1
Sherlock wrote:Interesting discussion gents.
So for the larger theaters (128x128) what variable names for objectives should be set lower? And to what suggested value(s)?
.
Thats not a easy question as there are a lot of variables as mentioned above . It would depend on how much you would want the campaign to be allowed to slow down (how low is low) and then how much or many objectives and what types in theater .
What we were talking above is in OCD data >field dataRate but this is just one part of equation . That value will let that objective produce fuel/supply . there are other global type values in falcon4.aii that pertain to bonuses (added fuel/supply/replacements) and multipliers, again this a a global type value .
Now in cam file there is also the fuel, supply , losses ,which you are probably familiar seeing. These valves "let" X amount of fuel.supply etc through the objective . then certain objectives are a IsSupplySource (city, ports, depots etc )
There a lot of ways to tweek things , I have been running test campaigns (save0 ) till day 5 or so on each test (altered data) just to see affects . What I am saying what works for Korea might not produce same with other theaters (I would most definitely have dedicated database ) . the lower you make fuel/supply lower the more touchy it gets as there no longer the abundance of supplies as was set in SP3/4 days .
Also you need to make sure your squadron stores don't have 255 counts ,as that makes it unlimited amounts .
Last AF works different than other versions if there supply/fuel code is based on SP3 , so that might be another issue but the basics should be same, as what gets changed .
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-14 02:19:09
by Hustler
No state secret, but when I come here and I read people commenting on how a campaign in FF works or doesn't, that leads me and others to believe you guys know what your doing. When you guys start asking questions and stop pretending you know something, when you clearly don't, then we can get down to business. The data rate is the GNP of your Theater (supply), the Supply/Fuel settings in your .cam files are demand. Need to state right now that I'm talking FreeFalcon. My code and AF's code are NOT the same.
Some of you think that you need to populate the entire map with 'stuff'. Why? When I look at a map of the US and I want to drive from Dallas to Chicago on the interstate highway system (path of least resistance) I can go to Little Rock, then turn North at West Memphis, throw in Mattoon and Kankakee and I'm there. I could also go North to OK City, Tulsa, Springfield, St. Louis, Springfield, IL, then Chicago. My point being those are the only objectives that are linked that I need. This idea that you need every little town and village and river and bridge that exist in real life is crazy.
IMO these large theaters are a waste of time and I'm not sure that the GTM can even handle more than about 3000 objectives.
What Ed has posted is good info, now you have mine.
Sherlock wrote:Hustler wrote: There is a relationship, but you guys have failed to figure it out.
So....
is it a state secret or what?
Hustler wrote:7000 Objectives is totally asinine, if you can't build a theater with less than 2000 Objectives, you should stay at home and play with the dog.
But doing a 128x128 theater with just 2,000 objectives is going to make for a pretty sparse theater don't you think? (since the area is 4x as large as a 64x64).
Re: Fuel and Supply levels in campaign
Posted: 2010-12-14 02:30:21
by demer928
Hustler wrote:7000 Objectives is totally asinine, if you can't build a theater with less than 2000 Objectives, you should stay at home and play with the dog.
You mean THIS is a problem!!????...
'nuff said!!!!!!!
Hell, the Tool can't read over ~5000,what do you think your doing to the Code,writing all this unneccessary BS?????
READ, "LIST's"
demer