Bugz

Campaign using BIS standard units

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Mike
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Bugz

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:21:28 AM

:-/PMC Fury is the best add on to OFP that's out there. So good, that it's "better" than the original. Easy test really, how many times have you re-played PMC vs Cold war etc?

I think I'm up to six replays. Each time, the rules change because of patches. They strongly affect the AI, and, who doesn't know about the machine gun?

Sadly, as well known as PMC is, it is not played by many. Why? because the first missions are ball tearing mongrels that put the uninitiated off. Would you waste your time on 200 missions after putting up with the initial 10 or so??.

I have gone thru each mission as at rev15 (I think) and the following postings would be (obviously) too much for a single post. Some of my Bugz, you wont agree with, but please, don't be offended by me, I love this game, and want PMC to be the best it can be.

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Re: Bugz Mission 2. The airport

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:25:42 AM

Not really a bug at all, so, as I said, don't get annoyed. Invading the airport is a great mission. I 'win' at least 5 different ways. One way to die with all the squad is to follow orders. Basically, if you get the sniper, you win. The mission is however ridiculously tough as a start of game. "friends" i've introduced pmc to, stop at this point.

Far too tough on all versions patches 1.45 to 1.91

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Re: Bugz Mission 4: Night Watch.

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:28:51 AM

Patch 1.91
Rev 15

Never ends.

You can blindly follow orders and let the tanks blow up, or, you can ignore orders and ambush the 4 spetz naz. Either way, the mission won't end. (Snake man, does the grunt follow orders in your campaign, or does he show 'independence'??

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Re: Bugz Mission 5 "Morning Patrol"

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:31:10 AM

rev 15
Patch 1.91

won't end because the enemy is too accurate and (i think) kills off the jeep coming to pick you up. Your squad leader and pal (generally) get killed off early as they're too dumbed down.

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Re: Bugz Mission 6 'Joy ride"

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:33:23 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

No joy at all, and no joy at any other patch level. What is the point of walking gun on back for 20 minutes playing time?

That's assuming you can time your eject before the chopper crashes.

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Re: Bugz Mission 10 Thirsty Tanks

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:35:09 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

you wait in the woods

and wait

and wait x 2

and wait x 4

and -endmission

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Re: Bugz Mission 11 Hold Meaux

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:38:13 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

at rev 1.45 the spetz naz cannot be 'seen' blowing tanks, at 1.91 unless you get the sniper he wipes the squad and mission wont end. This is such a scrappy mission it doesn't need to be there at all and should get scissored. The next mission (#12) is a re-run of this, but vastly improved.

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Re: Bugz Mission 17 Hospital Madness

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:40:54 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

your soldiers 'engage' if you 'target' the enemy. Nor will they follow formation.

this 'bug' is present in approx a doxen missions where the squad is in 'engage' mode' There is no indication that they are, but the 'fix' is to immediately issue option 3-6 'disengage'. Otherwise, the moment you target any enemy they all charge off to get killed.
Last edited by Mike on 1970-01-01, 12:00:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bugz Mission 18 "Gravette"

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:43:38 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

terrible end trigger. Actually, a terrible start trigger. You need to time the killing off of two bmps between the "chicken pot" radio message and them being in centre of town.

One scenario is, if a bmp sees you, it never gets to centre town but chases you around and the radio message wont happen.

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Re: Bugz Mission 19 roadblock ambush

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:46:09 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

Unless you make a LOT of noise when first attacking, the soldiers on other side wont come looking and wont trigger bmp/truck, hence -endmission.

(I have taken this lot out with two grenades and paid the penalty of being too clever)

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Re: Bugz Mission 20 Entre Deux

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:48:22 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

Chopper lands (most times) too close to machine gunner. If you eject, you might get him before he gets the entire squad.

Cannot make sense of the air support against (in most cases) one un-occupied T72 and a single BMP ???

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Re: Bugz Mission 24: Helicopter thingo

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:50:37 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

What green flare?

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Re: Bugz Mission 26 "Op Muse"

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:52:43 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

targetting causes engaging, no formation followed.

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Re: Bugz Mission 27 "Midnight morton"

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:53:57 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

Targetting causes engaging. no following formation.

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Re: Bugz Mission 28: "Threesome"

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 02:56:31 AM

rev 15 patch 1.91

severely dumbed down.

most enemy won't. and all (or most) T72's have been wiped out before you get to them. The only time this mission played exceptionally well was rev5? with no ofp patches.

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Re: Bugz last for now

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 03:02:29 AM

I should add, that I have NO addons at all, none. No gunslinger or editors. I am playing on a P4 2G4 with Geo 3 and a Celeron 800 something with geo 4.

That's the 1st 30 or so missions. Obviously i still have somewhere near 200-30 bug reports, but will await a response to this.

While it might appear a negative list to some, that's not my intention. Snake Man has given me hours and hours and hours of playing pleasure. IMHO I think he's lost interest in the early missions, at the expense of new grunts joining.

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-21, 05:34:01 AM

Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.

Without going into the mission details right now (I'll try to do that very soon, remind me if I dont reply soon), I must explain that the first 30 or so missions were the first PMC Fury version and in todays standards is terribly old. Old in the mission making skills I had and the fact that the OFP was on v1.30 or so when I did those missions.

I will of course fix all showstopper bugs but for example changing or removing some missions completely is not what I want to do. I know that somepeople might play one or two of the early missions and decide "this suckz" but ... well what can I say. It pays to be patient :)

Once again thanks for the feedback. I'm happy that you've had good time playing this puny campaign.

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Re: Bugz

Post by Mike » 2003-11-21, 11:48:34 PM

>terribly old and showstoppers.

without teaching grandmothers to suck eggs, would this be a sensible reason to split pmc into (say) 3 parts (1 per island). The early missions are showstoppers. I have played them at early revlevs and they were close to brilliant, now, patching, has killed off not just them, because some? few? most? wont plough their way thru for the gems.

>feedback

do you want another 30 or so mission bug reportz?

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-22, 01:57:50 AM

I'm afraid splitting it to pices is not an option. Like I said before, I will of course fix showstopper bugs on any missions, new or old.

Yes please send another batch of reports. You can just use like the bold feature (big B up there on YABBC tags part) for every mission title/header and then write the report under it with normal text. That way you dont necessarily have to make 30 individual forum messages. If that helps.

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-22, 12:23:14 PM

Oh btw I noticed you said rev 15, the latest version is rev 18 and I believe at least one of the reported bugs was directly fixed in this latest version.

Try it out.

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Bugz Mission 29 Insersections

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:05:55 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

targetting = engaging, no formation following, etc etc.

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Bugz Mission 30 Leftovers (3 woods)

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:06:47 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

targetting = engaging, no formation following, etc etc.

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Bugz Mission 34:  hostage rescue

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:08:48 AM

enemy kills you and rest of chopper before you can land.

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Bugz Mission 37 Deny Artillery

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:10:44 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

BMP destroys your chopper as it lands, 2 games out of 3.

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Bugz Mission 42: Ambush at Duras

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:13:41 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

ends early, no chopper ride home, no 'mission complete' radio message.

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Bugz Mission 43 Recon

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:16:15 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

chopper remains hovering over sea on any (re)load. You are most likely to savegame just after the oil dropping pressure radio message. If you do so, then any re-load causes chopper (and you) to wait for ever.

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Bugz Mission 44 Preparations

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:17:49 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

there is no radio message telling you to get in truck at beginning.

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Bugz Mission 49 Ghostchaser

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:24:29 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

objective remains unticked (find enemy camp) even after you've found it, even after radio confirmation and following bombs away, game wont end, even though the truck reinforcements are destroyed. The bmps are a pain, sometimes they appear, sometimes not. Cant find what triggers their appearance. I assume I cant find one or two enemy to end this mission, but, with only 2 other soldiers in my squad, that's an impossible ask over such a huge map.

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Bugz Mission 50 Kingdom

Post by Mike » 2003-11-23, 03:26:26 AM

patch 1.91
rev 17

bmp's cannot get up hill to attack so it regenerates for ever.

(have played, and completed this level at all other patches)

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz Mission 29 Insersections

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-23, 07:07:52 AM

targetting = engaging, no formation following, etc etc.
Could you provide bit more details of what this "targetting = engaging" means?

And do you mean by the no formation following by the fact that you select all your squad mates and issue return to formation but they do not obey that order? Are they on engage at will mode?

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-23, 11:06:46 AM

I did some testing with v1.94b
Thirsty Tanks
you wait in the woods and wait and wait x 2 and wait x 4 and -endmission
Dunno if it got fixed with the truck problem I found, but it works now.
Hold Meaux
spetz naz cannot be 'seen' blowing tanks, at 1.91 unless you get the sniper he wipes the squad and mission wont end
I did not pay attention to the spetz natz team (I actually forgot they were there). Sniper didn't shoot any of my guys and mission ended with slight delay just OK.
Going for Gravette
terrible end trigger. Actually, a terrible start trigger. You need to time the killing off of two bmps between the "chicken pot" radio message and them being in centre of town.
This mission worked just as planned when I followed HQ orders and ambushed the reinforcements with satchel charges.
Road Block
Unless you make a LOT of noise when first attacking, the soldiers on other side wont come looking and wont trigger bmp/truck
I dont know how you cannot make lot of noise... so it worked just ok when I tried. Reinforcements arrived, mission ended.
Entre Deux
Chopper lands (most times) too close to machine gunner. Cannot make sense of the air support against (in most cases) one un-occupied T72 and a single BMP
Indeed the blackhawk lands now at wrong spot (1.85+ AI fixes for helos), this will be fixed on next version.

Air support sense, well intel is not always perfect in a war. At least I'd go to a mission more comfortable feeling having air support, than not to.
Helicopter thingo
What green flare?
I do not recognize this mission...
Threesome
T72's have been wiped out before you get to them.
Well yeah, you wouldn't want to take on all the vehicles by yourself.

More testing under way...

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-24, 04:22:18 AM

More testing with v1.94b ...
Hospital Madness
Works as designed on my OFP, no problems targeting.

I am assuming you know how to order your men to "disengage", because in engage at will mode they are not following formation and are going after targets?
Airborne
assuming you can time your eject before the chopper crashes.
It did not crash when I played this mission, worked as designed. However I found one radio call being at wrong place, fixed.
Morning Patrol
won't end because the enemy is too accurate and (i think) kills off the jeep coming to pick you up. Your squad leader and pal (generally) get killed off early as they're too dumbed down.
Again, works as planned here. Well ok the overhead gunship patrol takes down the one Uaz which was meant for player to take out, but that does not change the outcome of the mission. The jeep that comes to the hospital reaches there ok since all enemies are taken out if you searched the first objective, also you are part of your team, your team mates cover you and you them. Use Teamwork.

Works as designed.
New Beginning
The mission is however ridiculously tough as a start of game.
Well I played this through now, was dead easy. Hey thats OFP for you, once its deadly the other time is dead easy... but indeed you are not the only one reporting the AI plan of attack is pure suicide and I was thinking that since this IS the first combat mission of PMC Fury I might do some tweaks there to give good first impression.

But please, dont take this the as I'm going to rework all older missions. I *might* tweak New Beginning a bit...
King Of My Castle
bmp's cannot get up hill to attack
They climb the mountain side just fine when I tested.
Preparations
there is no radio message telling you to get in truck at beginning.
Briefing tells that Alpha boards a 5t truck and in cadet mode you see the GET IN waypoint over the truck.
Recon
chopper remains hovering over sea on any (re)load.
Well not much I can do about such thing. Maybe you should not save at that time.
Ambush At Durras
ends early, no chopper ride home, no 'mission complete' radio message.
Found some errors, will be fixed on next version.
Hostage Rescue
enemy kills you and rest of chopper before you can land.
Indeed, will try to find nice solution for "under fire" situation and being killed.

More to come...

Mike
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Bugz mISSION 77 Eternal Phoenix

Post by Mike » 2003-11-25, 08:46:27 PM

patch 1.91
Rev 17

targetting == engaging

this is shorthand for a host of errors, all the same, all on several missions. This 'bug' on _this_ mission has been there since at least rev 5. It was not previously on early missions bit is now. It is almost endemic in missions prior to about 30. So not knowing what I'm talking about I assume bis have taken over some function verb that you used before they snaffled it.

if you tell soldiers to target an enemy (right click eg) they engage instead. In addition, they wont hold position but basically, charge at anything you /they can see. (yes, ok, this too is 'engaging', but there's no verbal or status confirmation that they are doing this, you can simply sit back and watch in amazement as they totally disregard or misinterpret orders!) My ignorant guess is they are in permanent 'engagement' mode, even though it's not indicated.

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Re: Bugz

Post by Mike » 2003-11-25, 09:04:24 PM

>tried 1.94b

I am not aware of a *new* bis patch (i was told on the unreliable grapevine that 1.91 would be 'it')

I'll dload asap.


>dont take this the as I'm going to rework all older missions.

I have recieved hours and hours and HOURS of enjoyment from pmc. I wouldn't expect a crafted, sometimes masterpiece, be altered to suit anyone. BUT, mission 2 is too tuff, and, as you say, the AI is suicidal. It is the suicidal ai that leaves a very bad taste in the mouth for newly inducted grunts !

>>what green flare? (chopper)

>I don't recognise this mission.

You go for a downed chopper with medic and are supposed to heal crew and head to hospital. I never see the green flare, I rarely find the chopper. I dont hate this mission, it's juts one I have never, ever, completed at any level or patch. I don't have confidence in it that it aint bugged to hell and back.

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Bug fixes

Post by Mike » 2003-11-26, 08:06:08 AM

as per patch 1.94(beta) and rev 17 of PMC

'engagement' bug.

it turns out that the squad is pre-triggered to engage. A simple 'disengage' command fixes this problem when you 'start'. but, and of course, you don't know you have to issue it, and for which missions (they change according to .pbo compile).

as per the above patch and rev the affected missions are
17 (hospital madness), 26 (le moule), 27 (morton), 29 (intersection), 30 (leftovers), and at least one more around mission 70 or so (can't recall _the_ #)

--
mission 5 "morning patrol" is still buggy. It will not end if both your soldiers are dead. I have chased all round the map for enemy. 3 at beginning, 2 sentries in town, 2 at hospital and 2 in forest after hospital.

--
mission 6 "helicopter joy ride"

my fault. I did not test this yet _again_. It current works at above revs (chopper finally does not crash).

--
mission 10 thirsty tanks.
fixed, as per patch 1.94b. It is a timing loop that fails on very fast cpu's prior to this patch.

--
mission 50 kingdom.

>>bmps' wont make hill
>yes they do.

No. they don't. This mission fails on cpus' >= 2.4 gigaherz.

they keep stalling or tumbling back down the hill. Only way to end mission is to go after them at bottom of "keep out zone".

this mission is one of your best, it is beautifully crafted and very clever (especially joined with the aborted mission earlier back). But, it has never had a satisfactory ending, regardless of patch and rev. sometime after the 'aircraft on their way' radio message, the mission simply snaps to an end, whether or not there's 16 T72's or none, no end mission message, nothing 'satisfactory' to say you survived the onslaught.

----
mission 28 threesome

>> severely dumbed down.

> should be glad you dont have to attack the tanks.

nope, this mission is faulty, it is severly clagged. I have played this mission at most levels and patches, it is tuff, it is interesting, it is a good one, a keeper. At this point (rev 17 patch 1.94b, it is beyond sick, it might as well be a cut-scene. Fine if you want to keep it that way, a cut scene, but it wasn't your original intention.

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Bugz. Mission 5 still faulty

Post by Mike » 2003-11-27, 07:34:30 AM

patch 1.94b
rev 19
Morning patrol

1)
mission will not end if both your team members are killed. this, despite both objectives ticked and completed.
2)
mission will end, erroneously, if you kill off the two enemy at hospital (basically, ignore the town)

PS rev 19 is FAR better than before, the uaz is a lot more interesting !!

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Bugz remain at rev 19

Post by Mike » 2003-11-28, 11:15:27 PM

patch 1.94b
rev 19

following missions remain faulty, _despite_ apparent fixes.

34 hostage rescue

you land almost on top of enemy. This may, or may not be deliberate because Snake has put a retry very close to this 'event'.

42 Ambush
still ends suddenly with no chopper ride home

50 kigdom

mission ends slightly after radio message that convoy has restarted. No bmp's are in evidence. also, debug messages keep appearing on radio. (east west etc)

Snake_Man

Re: Bugz remain at rev 19

Post by Snake_Man » 2003-11-28, 11:31:21 PM

34 hostage rescue
you land almost on top of enemy.
Thats normal, you land into the camp itself.
50 King of my castle
debug messages keep appearing on radio. (east west etc)
This was just now fixed, will be checking rest of the mission more thoroughly soon.

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Re: Bugz

Post by Mike » 2003-11-28, 11:53:01 PM

Thats normal, you land into the camp itself.
Klever Snake <grin>

Mission 4. Night watch will you be fixing that soonish? It doesn't end, and it has that target [none] business.

>Kingdom

it's one of your best, it deserves fixing. The convoy could do with a cleaner mission intent. If and when they ever arrive they stuff about before unloading. It's not certain what the sniper and the hmmv are supposed to do against bmps etc. That convoy is misnamed, it's a relief squad, not a convoy of supplies as such.

also, where the hell IS the no go zone. Some revs/patches have beta squad charging down the left side of it, soem revs/ you cant do anything unless you overstep the boundary (and pick off a few bmps).

---
New beginnning, mission 2.

still far too tuff, still suicidal. (I haven't detected much difference at all except your fearless leader sticks closer to the forest)

would it be 'better' (tm), to have you as part of the other squad (the one that goes after the sniper and gets wiped out before it makes 200 yards?). I generally 'win' by totally ignoring orders and getting the sniper. After that, I've got a chance against the 2,128 enemy soldiers at the fuel station.
What is the enemy helo, what's it's significance? is it stopping our choppers wiping out the enemy hordes?

perhaps? as a beginning mission, it might? be better as a surprise assault against a single sleepy enemy squad?

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Bugz: Mission 74 Rolling Promise

Post by Mike » 2003-11-30, 01:27:59 AM

rev19 patch 1.94b

as per the above rev "added punch to enemy defence"

imho too much punch, it always was a tough mission with hordes of enemy soldier entrenched in town, backed by alert bmp's. The bis engine does not handle tank AI at all well (witness the tremendous slowdown on cpu whenever tanks are involved while the engine keeps changing it's mind what to do with the damn things).

It's pot luck whether you're left to attack 99 T72's, or, 3. (if 3, your remaing M1A1 abrahms, if any, just ignore them).

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