DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Korea theater

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DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-23 15:48:35

http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/showthr ... post129556

three new campaigns, korea-1959, korea-2012, and korea- "northen typhoon".

file size 170mb!

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-23 17:02:57

Whats included in the 170mb download?
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by derStef » 2008-11-24 00:31:48

what 170MB? there must be more inside than only campaigns...

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-24 00:54:56

At a quick glance, each new campaign, acutally are set up as an individual theater, has its own Art, campaign, and some definition folder. may have its own koreaObj database too.

i've not started my test yet.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by derStef » 2008-11-24 01:15:39

ccc wrote:At a quick glance, each new campaign, acutally are set up as an individual theater, has its own Art, campaign, and some definition folder. may have its own koreaObj database too.

i've not started my test yet.


ahh, understand! not that bad idea to give each korea theater his own "objects folder"! thats a looooong whish from me. personally i know "how to", but the standard falcon users who just want to fly will have a problem...

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-24 04:54:29

confirm each campaign has its own koreaObj database, that's 137mb.

DoctorX must have spent lots of time and energy editing them..

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-24 08:11:27

Yes I assume that the load outs etc would be different in 1959 and 2012 indeed, so you need to databases + skins perhaps. But I still think that the database files itself should not be that large, I mean does he include a lot of skins too?
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-24 08:57:10

i think no skin files.. will check later. pc not at hand.

BTW i test 1959 campaign few hours ago. take a ride in F-8, gun down a mig19.

i noted DoctorX changed some loadouts, say, no AAM available on F-8 and F-100.. so.. most ac are gun only. i also noted in F-8 MFD weapong manage page, it shows AA: gun ammo = 1, while AG: gun ammo = 58. wierd, when i downed that mig19, i spent 20 clicks, 3 hit/ 16%.

another thing to check further is, how the AI handling pure gun fight/ multiple ac gun fight. Last time i tried creating a Vietnam-era Korea campaign, the result is not that pleasing.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21473

i also noted the new mod includes falcon4.aii ? files, dunno if AI is tweaked..

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-24 15:07:40

more 1959 campaign test ..

- the pure gun fight seems work. i joined several F-8 and F-100 flights, saw wingmen actively shooting at mig17 and bombers!

- the aforementinoed gun ammo count error does not exist in following tests.

- author also change the loadouts, remove cluster bombs from F-100 loadout list. naplam is my choice now :mrgreen: the only precision guide weapon for F-100 is AGM-12.

- witness hot action over FLOT.. AAA tracers up, exlosions and smokes, B52 dumping bombs, SAM smoke trails up, and fighters chasing their air targets. Since i do not turn on label, and there's no AWACS, i've to listen to, or read the broadcasting info to vector myself..and it always takes a whiele, and a closer look to identify which one is red ac - of course, a trick is using radar boresight mode, lock on the target, friendly will call buddy spike, hostile won't. yeah it's a pain, but lots fun.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-24 16:39:30

What files are there in the 170mb download?

Is it just rar + files, or exe installer?
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-24 16:49:37

What files are there in the 170mb download?
as i said, each campaign as a theater mod, has its own Art, campaign, and a Terradata folder( a copy of koreaobj "objects" folder, contains koreaobj. dxl, .dxh, . lod, . hdr. and . tex ) the terrdata folder stands for 113+mb.
Is it just rar + files, or exe installer?


a zip. unzip all files into falcon theaters folder

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-24 16:50:57

FYI, here's the readme txt..

Code: Select all

	================================================
			DoctorX Campaigns
	================================================

			-- Korea 1959 --
			-- Korea 2012 --
			-- Northern Typhoon --

		Designed for Falcon 4 - FreeFalcon 4 / RedViper 1
		Created by Dave "DoctorX" Reynolds

_______________________________
 INSTALLATION:

1. Unzip the files
2. Move the "Theaters" folder into your "Falcon4" folder
3. Open the file "Theaters.lst" in the "Falcon4" folder using 
    notepad and add the following three lines:

Theaters\Korea-Korea1959\TheaterDefinition\Korea_1959.tdf
Theaters\Korea-Korea2012\TheaterDefinition\Korea_2012.tdf
Theaters\Korea-NorthernTyphoon\TheaterDefinition\Korea_NorthernTyphoon.tdf

4. Start Falcon and select the desired campaign in the theater 
    selection screen. (Each theater has one campaign)

_______________________________
 KOREA 1959:

Description:
  Old-school gunfights against the gomers.  I actually wanted 
  to make a re-creation of the original Korean war but F4's 
  database doesn't have enough of the period aircraft.  
  Instead I opted to create this fictional campaign in which 
  North Korea launches a second Korean war in the late 50's / 
  early 60's era.  

Strategies:
  - Don't rely on your barcap flights and AAA to keep the 
    enemy out.  Strike hard and deep and early to take out 
    their airbases before they take out yours.  
  - Keep your head on a swivel.  Radar and TWS ranges are 
    minimal or nonexistent in the old jets, so hone them Mk-1 
    eyeballs.  
  - Consider flying in CAT1 config and setting the MPO switch 
    to "override" to bypass the flight limiters.  IRL there 
    are no flight limiters in these period aircraft.  

Bugs:
  F4 wasn't designed with a gunfighting campaign in mind.  I'm 
  pleased with the way it turned out but there are a few things 
  to keep in mind:
  - You will see additional guns on hardpoint locations in the 
    loadout screen.  This isn't a bug but rather a "cheat" I 
    had to employ to allow AI flights to takeoff for CAP 
    missions since there are no AA missiles for most of the 
    aircraft.  These "extra" guns only appear in the loadout 
    screen, they don't appear in 3d nor do they affect the 
    ammo count.  
  - Barcap coverage is very thin since the ATO still assumes 
    the CAP aircraft have BVR coverage.  As such, expect a lot 
    more enemy aircraft to penetrate into ROK airspace.  
  - Due to the makeup of some of the units in the database, 
    you may see some modern units mixed in the ground forces 
    (humvees, SA-15's, etc)
  - Allied air defenses are relatively weak, esp against 
    high-altitude attacks.  
  - AI wingmen are tempted to engage enemy that are way 
    outside the threat radius of the enemy (they think they 
    still have BVR missiles).  If you find them peeling away 
    to fight distant enemies on their own, call them to rejoin.  
  - The F-8 consumes fuel at what I consider to be an 
    unrealistically high rate, as such it's combat radius is 
    somewhat limited.  Always load up external tanks, even for 
    short missions.  
  - There were no AWACS aircraft in this era, but there were 
    ground-based EW radar systems that performed similar 
    duties.  I recommend disabling the "AWACS required" 
    setting in the config editor to simulate this.  

_______________________________
 KOREA 2012:

Description:
  Modernized aircraft and equipment on both sides of the DMZ.  

Strategies:
  - Learn up on the capabilities of the modern enemy fighters 
    and SAM systems, or learn the hard way.  

Bugs: 
  None that I know of.  

_______________________________
 NORTHERN TYPHOON:

Description:
  The DPRK has caught the ROK with their pants down.  A 
  massive offensive is flooding down from the north and allied 
  defenses are not prepared for it.  It's going to be a bloody 
  first few days before reinforcements arrive.  Make sure 
  there is something left to defend when they do arrive.  

Strategies:
  - You need to take control of the PAK planner if you want to 
    have any hope of winning this one.  Concentrate on holding 
    the line and keeping allied airspace clear at the onset of 
    the campaign.  
  - If you are used to leaving some of the enemy airbases 
    intact to avoid the campaign getting "stale", forget it.  
    The DPRK's airforce will continue to be reinforced at new 
    airbases throughout the duration of the campaign.  If you 
    don't take out their runways they will quickly overwhelm 
    you.  
  - I don't want to give away any secrets, but I will caution 
    that small surprises can become major problems quickly.  
  - Hold the line.  If Seoul and Choongwon fall, allied 
    support may fall with them.  

Bugs:
  None that I know of.  


Enjoy!

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-25 02:44:07

ah i should read the readme.txt first..
You will see additional guns on hardpoint locations in the
loadout screen. This isn't a bug but rather a "cheat" I
had to employ to allow AI flights to takeoff for CAP
missions since there are no AA missiles for most of the
aircraft. These "extra" guns only appear in the loadout
screen, they don't appear in 3d nor do they affect the
ammo count.

> the trick is cool. no wonder i saw hot WVR dogfights. and no wonder my 1960 tweak failed.
- There were no AWACS aircraft in this era, but there were
ground-based EW radar systems that performed similar
duties. I recommend disabling the "AWACS required"
setting in the config editor to simulate this.
> yes it should make your life easier. without AWACS and cheat label, the only way to ID air target at far distance is "using radar to lock target and see if he call buddy spike" . Even at WVR, and use zoom-in view, it still take me a few more seconds to ID the ac type.
KOREA 1959 Description:
Old-school gunfights against the gomers. I actually wanted
to make a re-creation of the original Korean war but F4's
database doesn't have enough of the period aircraft.
Instead I opted to create this fictional campaign in which
North Korea launches a second Korean war in the late 50's /
early 60's era
so the auther's intention is to re-create histroical korea war, 1950-53.. the war without AAMs. it explains the reasons he remove IR AAMs/AIM-9B from F-8 and F-100. i remember the prototype sidwinder as GAR-8, first scored AA kill in 1958, over Taiwan strait - several mig17/J5 downed.

the only AAM-capable ac in this campaign are F-102 and mig21F-13. i flew several F-102 missions, the AIm-4s are quite unreliable as in RL..sometimes it took all my AAM load to hit and down a il-28.
- Due to the makeup of some of the units in the database,
you may see some modern units mixed in the ground forces
(humvees, SA-15's, etc
since the mod has its own objects folder, this bug should be editable.

Summary:

- pure gun fight works well so far. nice trick to make it work( it gives me more confience to have a ture historical mod, with adequate 3d items in DB viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21548&start=0).

- As expected, the success rate of AA intercetp is lower as no AAM available. i feel the air war tempo is loose when compared to modern one..each AA engagement takes more time( guns only), bombers have more chance to pass the intercept, and when being vectored to targets, you got to light up AB frequently..that is, each flight can score less air or ground kills in this old fashion mod.

- based on the working korea campaign, i think this mod can reach an end.. i'll check it- see if it take more days to finish than modern ones.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-25 15:37:49

i lost few AFBs..the red air strike is more dense than expected..

- F-102 is no good at AA, six rounds of aim4 and i can only get 2 kills, AI wingmen score zero! gunfighter like F-8 and F-100 is more reliable. it's tough to stop incoming attackers/bombers, really.. with poor AIM4, F102 cannot do the job.. and gunfighters must get close enough to pull trigger.. bombers have much better chance to hit target than modern days.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by Snake Man » 2008-11-25 17:35:39

Interesting to hear how it turns out ingame, keep posting if you discover some more about this.

Thanks for posting, good read.
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by toonces » 2008-11-25 18:17:47

I tried the 1959 and Northern Typhoon campaigns over the weekend.

The 1959 campaign is fun! I did 3 sorties in the F-8. We did indeed get into a couple furious dogfights right on the deck. I don't use labels, so it was a real challenge to VID targets. They look quite different even at a distance...the MiG-19 has swept wings, the 102 is delta winged...they are relatively easy to distinguish at about 3 miles.

The AI in the dogfights I got into was quite crafty. It was harder than I expected to fight them.

Gas was a huge factor. It was one of the few times since flying Falcon where I was actually concerned about how long I was in burner.

I don't know how it will play longterm, but it was definately worth downloading. The install was painless as per the readme.

We really, really need a better pit for the F-8. Like I said on Freefalcon, I ended up dropping the A-10 3-D pit into my F-8 folder and flying with that. It's a compromise, but it is far better than flying the F-8 with the F-16 pit. I'd love to convince Aeyes to hack together a generic 60's style fighter pit for use with jets like the F-8 and A-4. He could probably do that in a weekend.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-26 03:01:08

They look quite different even at a distance...the MiG-19 has swept wings, the 102 is delta winged...they are relatively easy to distinguish at about 3 miles.
yeah, F102 can be IDed easily, what i'm confused is a mix-up of F8/F100/mig19/mig17..you've to get closer to ID them, then take action.. say, in historical Vnam, the visual ID for mig17/21 and F-4 is much easier - by size and shape!
We really, really need a better pit for the F-8. Like I said on Freefalcon, I ended up dropping the A-10 3-D pit into my F-8 folder and flying with that. It's a compromise, but it is far better than flying the F-8 with the F-16 pit.
Be patient - see if FF5 bring some goodies. :wink:
acutally i've done a rough F-8 3d pit many years ago ( and posted on PMC board- pic lost), it do help immersion. A-10 3d pit is ok for placeholder, but need tweaks to enable the only MFD? scren for radar scope.

BTW..AFAIW DoctorX doesn't edit the role score and sq specaility of mig17/J5, just let them do the same job-low level attacker, as Jim did in FF. they don't act aggressively in AA..much unlike mig19.. yeah i like mig17 more active as dogfighter.

my last night flying confirmed that i should focus on OCA earlier.. thus comes the effectiveness of bombs..

a section of main runway hitpoints is 500( some 750 or 1000?), its vulnerablity is 100% to AP, 50% to HE, and 200% to anitrunway warhead.
now we've in 1959 are..
mk84, HE damage point 440 > 440*50% = 220 > NEED THREE mk84 to destroy it ( F100 max mk84 load is two)
mk83, HE 346, > need Three to kill.
mk82, HE 233, > need FIVE to kill.
mk81, HE 176 > need Six to kill.
mk117, HE 310 > need Four to kill.

>> for F100 to disable an AFB(destroy the mid section of runway), the loadout combination could be..
1.two mk84 and one mk81 or 82, (store weight 4250-4500lb, leave 3 HardPoint empy for extra weapon)
2.three mk83, (store 3000lb, leave 3 HP)
3.five mk82, (2500lb, leave 1 HP)
4.six mk81, ( 1500lb, leave 0 HP)
5.four mk117 ( 3000lb, leave 2 HP)

> so, loadout 1 and 2, most heavy, the loadout 2 could be slightly lighter.. also has extra ammo for targets.
> loadout 4-mk81, is lightest, means you may fly faster amd more maneuvorable, no ammo for extra targets.
> loadout 3 and 5 inbetween, but mk117 loadout seems more flexable for extra targets.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-27 01:56:14

Errr.. no good.. i lost most blue AFB, only one airstripe/A-1H and one carrier available on Day 2 !! :twisted:

again i've to emphasize the difficulty of bomber interception( with pure gunfighters)..the gunfighters must be guided to adequate altitude, speed, and a chasing position within few nm of bombers. with limit gun ammo, the goal is to force bombers drop store and abort missions, so, the key is to make ALL bombers damaged and turned back ASAP.. do not waste too much time on one single bomber.

Before i lost most blue airbases, i just totally focused on OCA and BAI missions..

for OCA, A-4 and F-100D can do good job. as AI gunfighters has difficulty intercepting ac, human ac can easily reach target AFB.. the only thing can stop you is SA-2 and AAA. with A-4, i fly at full throttle and load three mk84, drop all on mid point of runway, done - one ac, one AFB disable. so does F-100D- with two mk84 and 1-2 other smaller bombs. drop and go home, AI ac can not hurt you. :mrgreen:

for BAI/CAS, all FLOT suffered big loss from overwhelming red ground forces..so i rushed to check what can help friendly timely..
> A-4, fast, load with 9 mk20( dunno if mk20 available in 1959)
> A-1H, slow, load mix mk20, dumb bombs. ( in RV you can not manage the weapon setting in pit, unable to use )
> F-100D, fast, best with mk84 and bigger bombs, no mk20. F-100D can use some naplam/BLU gas bombs..but the damage effect is poorer than expected..ideally, BLU is a area weapon to "damage" as many ground forces as possible, to turn their offensive into defensive or retreat.. but the BLU-1/-10/-27 is no good due to smaller "blast or damage radius". i checked f4browse data, mk77 got radius 1800 :shock: , while BLU ranging from 307 to 579. therefore i stopped using BLU.

well, IL-28 disables several AFBs while i doing OCA and BAI, i got two bases left, one carrier, and one small airstripe at east coast front with A-1H..errrrr..seems i've no sufficient CAPs to protect the repairing AFBs...a vicious cycle :evil:

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-28 02:21:55

Spending a whole day with carrier-based A-4, i managed to hammer the red ground units at FLOT.. the red just overwhelming, and blue air support counts on two sq of A-1, one A-4, and sometimes one or two B-52! sq.

on day 2 evening, surprisingly i have 2-3 AFB repaired and resumed operational! :D two AFBs have F102 and F8 sq- can only take AA missions, the other has one F100D sq.. yeah, better than not, i feel the red ground attack is somewhat blunted and slowed down. too bad the AFBs closer to FLOT and stationed with more attack ac are still under repairing, or was hit again by red air.

to keep my repaired ABs alive, this time i pay more attention to CAP/inetercept missions, and adjust priority bars accordingly. from monitoring 2d war, i noted F102 and F8 do good job in most occasions..they just have difficulties intercepting low flyers.. and missed them. when i found red air target heading at my AFBs, i rushed to pick a nearby F102 or F8, hit full throttle or AB for intercept..thus comes some interesting AA fighting..

- F-8, only has gun, get closer to shoot, is quite reliable. il28 is easy target, just watch out its tailgun.. as il28 flying at relative high and constant speed/altitude, be sure to keep you airspeed high- shoot--move to next tgt and shoot, try to down or damage all il28 in a chasing engagment. the other incoming threats are low flyers like mig17, or mig19/Su7. these tgt are much smaller, faster, and maneuvorable - gun kill takes more time and effort, and put AFBs in more danger. in this case you need all help from wingmen to chase or interrupt all incominig attackers. su-7 is more concentrated on attack and fly really fast at low.. keep chasing it for gun kill is not a smart move.. mig17/19, may join dogfight, are good targets for gunkill..they move slower, and mig17 apparently an easier target than mig19..i used to gun down 2-3 mig17 in a fight, vietnam style. BTW gunfighter seems do better job in 2d world then 3d.

- F-102, well this one is not reliable in AAM and its own performance. aim-4c.. extremely low hit rate.. in one engagment with il-28, all six rounds failed to touch the target..the bombers were downed by SAM before reaching airbase :oops: However aim-4G seems do better job..and good at small targets too(maybe these ac uses AB in maneuvors?). in several occasions i downed mig17/19/su7 with it.. its motor rocket burning time is short, so the smoke trail disappears in 2-3 seconds, then target hit explosion shows up few more seconds later. When use aim-4G, don't get too close to target, or missile can not start its steering..this missile is ok for small Migs, save gun chasing time. BTW..though Aim-4G is listed as rear-aspect IRAAM( as in F4browse edit), i did have two head-on mig kills. :mrgreen: F102 itself has lots shortcomings like poor re-acceleration, easy losing airspeed in turn fight, and poor climb rate.. when intercepting high flyers, be sure to gain your speed and altitude ASAP..if not, chasing IL-28 is a truely pain.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-11-29 03:00:30

it's Day 4.

- my airbases swinging between operational and disabled status for few rounds.. now i am more used to the nature course of war :lol: With my active intervention in intercepting bombers, some of my AFBs can be opreational for longer time, and project more power on enemy AFBs and ground units.. But when i jumped in a strike ac to do BAI/OCA, some blue AFBs could be hit during that period of time.

- anyway, the red ground offensive seems even blunted at FLOT and loosing its momentum.. the ground force level is almost the same on both sides.. if i could have more strike ac, blue may turn into offensive soon BUT - ATM the operational AFBs left are the carrier and one airstripe/A-1H, again :evil: Even worse, ac low, ammo low in store.. a feeling of long attrition war.

- more thoughts about intercept mission.. Su-7 alway fly very low and fast up to 480-500kt, very fast, and hard to intercept with pure gunfighter like F8 or F100! whatever ac you fly, got light up Afterburner all the time to chase su7! and in this case i've to say F102 is best choice to do the job, 4 aim4G down 3 su7, 2 aim4C down 1 su7. fast, level, and less evasive su7 is best target for AIM-4 series. in contrast, mig17/19 are more maneuvorable, acutally mig19 is much dangerous than mig17/J5, it shows more aggressive in dogfight and accelerate really fast - it will take quite a while to catch them- not to mention get within gun range!

- im abit worried about the attrition rate of blue ground units.. if blue groud units are lowered to some extent, they won't be able to launch any offensive even if i wipe out all red ground force, and make the war end as a draw.
FWIW, this 1959 mod is not an easy one.. it's a rolling-fire type campaign with strong red ground and air forces. the blue air power does not enjoy any significant, or decisive advantage in quality or quantity that can easily counter the red air strike... a tough war to go.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-01 02:53:06

Alright.. the situation is BLEAK, really.

on Day 8 1530, red army captured an obj at north margin of seoul area, a short movie tolds me Kim is very happy :evil:

on Day 9, two more obj at north part of Seoul area fell.

though blue AFBs experienced destroyed-resume operational cycle for several times, and i tried my best to intercept bombers, i still have difficulties keeping more AFB operatonal for a long time..now i only have a operational carrier( it seems Red did not do any antiship job.. maybe their ac do not have anti-ship role score?), and Seoson AFB. Even worse..the sqadrons are extremely low on ac and ammo store!!! :evil: say, A-1H = 0, A-4B =2, etc. no ac or ammo resupply at all.. Red air power dominated the sky.

the red ground forces attack along three route- East coast force has captured two blue AFB, mid to Chonjuo, and west to Seoul north. my blue FLOT is broken..and most remaining blue units is defending the south part of Seoul..geez.. the situation is hopeless..it's just a matter of time to lose the war.. a quite different simming experience.

to sum up,
in 1959 campaign, the pure gunfighter and poor AAMs can not stop incoming bombers effectively..thus make all blue air power falls into a vicous cycle, losing air superiority, losing air-ground support, then losing the war. to make the mod fair to blue side, or friendly to blue side player, imo it needs double AA fighter sq to provide more CAPs( to overcome the poor interception rate), and more AG attcker sq( to overcome the overwhelming red army, and relatively low-killing power AG ammo). and last, more carriers.

Anyway this mod do provide some idea for a true [1950-53 korea war mod]..and let me have a good picture of what it look like..
- need more AA fighters for longer interception and dogfight combat time/sucesss rate.
- old fighter can not do multiple engagment.
- old attacker/bomber do much less damage to targets, need more attacker/bombers to hammer ground units.
- the tempo of war is much slower.
- reinforcemetn is the key to make war balanced, at some point.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by molnibalage » 2008-12-01 13:09:40

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-13 12:16:19

i start testing DoctorX's second campaign, korea 2012.

- as readme file said, it seems to be an easy one, at first glance. blue side has fair air dominance, and CAS ac do good job wiping out first wave of red invasion. on Day 1, red ground power was cut down to 50%, thus CIS and PRC joined the game. on Day 1 0915, a movie clip " allied force being push back to DMZ" kept being played every 5 minutes.. probably a TRI file bug. it last for several hours after blue ground forces pushing to the north border of DMZ.

- the blue started major offensive on Day 2000. As default korea campaign, blue ground force moved along three routes to north, left(west coast to p'yangyong), middle, and right(east coast to Wonson). the middle and west routes look good, the left wing encountered very strong attack from red air/land forces, made little progress. While blue side advancing, i noted Red side started receiving more and more reinforcement..air, and ground forces.. almost resumed the quantity as the blue side :shock:

-i spent most time on CAS mission, flying A10 and AV8..appearantly AV8 is a much faster and powerful choice in this case. besides AV8 also can score some AA kill with its aim120.. The East route enemies were wiped out with strong CAS support form AV8 sq. In contrast, A10 sq from Kimpo is responsible for West wing CAS support.. in the face of advanced mig29/su27/30/35, i noted A10 sq has poor chacne to reach their target zone. the A10 base was quickly disabled by red air and closed for quite a long while.

- probably database issue, some ac are not tasked properly. for example, AV8 go for long-range strike, and F117 do BAI/CAS.

- author adds many modern russian SAMs.. for human simmer, i found it's quite tough to do SEAD/DEAD in 3d world. however AI ac(not stealthy type) can easily penetrate the SAM network and hit their targets. my old tactic to destroy SA-12 radar is extremely low-level terrain following, shoot HARM when within MAX range. in this mod there're many hidden SAM units around SA12..the most dangerous one is SA17..even i flying very low, it still fired at me as i passing by. so, unless you fly stealth bomber/attacker, better make sure you wipe out surrounding SA17s first.

- author also adds many latest, modern ac in this mod. As falcon AI code cannot handle these new weapon properly(poor tactic), they did not show prominent superiority. the default F16 avonic code also fail to show the true power of new ac like F22. Even so, i am happy the show at FLOT is mixed up with F22, su33, su39, Su35, mig29SD, tu160, and AH66 :mrgreen: heheh another hot 3d model party.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-15 03:36:51

my campaign turns into a poor status on Day 3. :oops: i assumed it should be pretty easy..

- As CIS and PRC joined the war, the red air power grew too strong.. overwhelming the blue side..the new opponents are better and faster ac like su35, mig29SD, J10, tu22M3 and Tu160. actually blue air forces face a wall of R-77 and PL-12! the reason i start losing is.. blue side can not disable red airbases as in the begining!!

at first day my stealth F117 and B2 still can disable some AFBs.. now with more patrolling su35/27/mig29SD and J10, i noted F117 and B2 failed to penetrate the CAP net - you can not pass several CAPs without being detected by the last one! the blue air lose rate is high.. most ac sq down to zero or single digit :shock: i think i totally lost the air dominance.. even i maximize the CAP priority, the active red AFBs kept sending more ac out.. all over the FLOT..the single F22 sq can do little help. ( time to launch some Land attack cruise missiles!! :twisted: )

- on the ground, the west wing made little progress and suffered from su39 air strike. the middle and east wing is halted due to lack of air cover.. they made good progress and captured 4-5 red AFBs.. few units just got close to Wonson area then stopped there. Without air dominance and strong CAS, blue side turned into defensive now.

- the ground force level, red is slightly more than blue now. air power, red has double ac as blue. imho.. author probably add too many red reinforcement, both air and land.

- in the face of R-77-armed mig or su, F16 has little chance to survive..my F16 armed with 120C4 and C5.. but su/mig can always shoot first! in contrast, stealth F22 do better AA job but - author tweaked database and make it tasked for stealth strike, thus thining the sq for pure AA mission. it's a good idea to let F22 do most dangerous job like killing SA10/12 and strike protected AFBs but, the database needs further tweak - i noted F22 strike flight frequently be intercepted and downed by red air ac.. Ideally, if F22 can succeed in OCA, i can regain air dominance by lowering red ac in the air. it just not work as (US DoD) advertised in this case :mrgreen:

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by molnibalage » 2008-12-15 16:49:58

the ground force level, red is slightly more than blue now. air power, red has double ac as blue. imho.. author probably add too many red reinforcement, both air and land.
What does it mean for reinforcements? New squadrond appear on map? You can check easily this with tacedit. There is reinf column in units table.
in the face of R-77-armed mig or su, F16 has little chance to survive..my F16 armed with 120C4 and C5..
And this is a modelling problem. Capability of R-77 is very overmodelled...
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-16 14:11:02

What does it mean for reinforcements? New squadrond appear on map? You can check easily this with tacedit. There is reinf column in units table.
i mean the quantity of RED air and land reinforcement is overwhelming. my campaign status turns from good to poor in one day!

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by molnibalage » 2008-12-16 18:06:24

Reinforcement meant two different thing.

1. New squadrons and battalions can appear on the map. This can be set via Tacedit with reinf data (hours) and other flags.

2. EXISTING battalions and squadron got new AC, vehicles under the campaign. Size of reinforcement depends on too much variable. I'm almost 100%-ly sure that he didn't change anything about this because I have never met a person who can understand how works EXACTLY the supply system. This is almost the bigger black hole in Falcon. One thing is certain, size of reinforcements are strongly overmodelled.
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Reason: Fixed typos so forum search engine can more easily find this important post. Sorry, its not usually preferred method to edit other users typos but like I said...
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-20 01:36:12

Day 4.

- i highjacked some flights fro CAS/BAI. it seems red defence around Wonson was softened..blue ground forces should feel better now- but no offensive move yet. the red ground force level now lowered than blue side, slightly.

- i noticed several blue ac reinforcement arrived.. now i have two F-22 sq( at least)..it seems the air superiority over DMZ is fair to blue side now..red air activities reduced.

- i noticed more F117 and B2 joined CAS/BAI mission :shock:

- i flew F22 to intercept tu160 - surprisingly tu160 flying in a low-alt penetration tactic at 1000ft :shock: Due to some bug, probably RV database or F22 pit, CTDs for few times, so i left such mission for AI in 2d.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-25 12:55:51

day 4, i slowed down the time compression and joined more flights..

- i highjacked more flights to hit red ground units.. now in Force level diagram, blue vehicle is slightly over 2500, and red is about 2000. campaign status turned into good. ground posture remain defensive.. it seems i lost too many armour units- the power of offensive.. if it's the case, blue will never be able to launch any offensive.

- i saw three F22 sq operational - the quanitity and quality helps stablizing the FLOT control.. much less red mig/su wondering there. even so, i noted the F22 sq loosing their ac frequently..mostly due to AI F22 took multiple-engagements, ran out of aim120, stupid AI joined WVR with aim9x or gun, then killed by neighboring mig/Su.

- some destroyed blue AFBs remained out of operational for long time, like A-10 based Kimpo.. tho mainrunways are all repaired, the base just won't back to work. :evil:

- AV8 sq is pretty good for CAS/BAI.. but ATO frequently gave them long-range OCA suicidal mission.. such missions made the sq loosing ac rapidly.. always downed to 0-3 ac. player may have to correct this ATO bug manually.

- the campaign seems a bit static..no aggressive move from Red.. just waiting for blue offensive.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2008-12-31 07:37:11

Day 5.

- i wiped out most ground units in wonson area, then ordered several ground units moving to capture wonson political spots. As the whole ground posture is defensive, it took almost a day to get ground troops moving..once they started capturing objs, more units followed.. finally i occupied wonson area, but wonson AFB still remained Red.. broken obj linking?

-A10 stationed Kimpo AFB resumed operational, finally. As no ground offensive at west part of FLOT, A10 sq were tasked for OCA by stupid ATO.. some are deep into Red SA12/17 umbrella. Such suicidal missions lowered A10 ac rapidly..i've to remove all their store to abort missions, or divert the routes, highjack one for other purpose. A10 is highly vulnerable to advanced mig/su..once engaged, all lost. :evil:

- i noted the blue CAPs over FLOT is getting slightly sparse- again..mostly due to increasing red CAP and increasing blue air loss..unless blue can have red AFB kept disabled or captured, it is inevitable to have endless AA fights over FLOT. The blue ground units at west part consolidated at north border of DMZ since the start of war..time to drive them ahead toward pyang'yong.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-01-03 02:28:09

to my surprise, on Day 5 1600, Blue side launched major offensive!! :D

as i cleared most red ground units around wonson, and ordered few blue units to captured wonson political spots, campaign AI commander think it's time to take the advanatage - more and more blue units started moving and gathering at Wonson area, suddenly Wonson AFB truned blue as well :D even more, some units advancing north and capture two airstrips north of Wonson area..the two airstrips stationed some attacker sq, so it also saved blue ground units from air raid.. good job 8-)

Apart from East coast offensive, blue forces also advancing along west coast and mid course.. on Day 6, few units captured Koksan AFB and Koksan airstrip - the most important red AFBs for protecting the center inland area of DPRK.

As time passing, the target of offensive shifting from north Wonson to Haeiju, on the west route of attack axis. the offenisve running so good that several red AFBs captured by blue, thus caused a positive cycle for blue side => red AFB lost > red active air power reduced > more active blue air AA/AG activity > even less red air activities.

yeah, feel much much better now :mrgreen: ATM red air activities were sparse, few CAPs, some long-range strikers and bombers - all can be neutralized easily with superior blue air power over FLOT! :D

the red ground force level, vehicle around 2000 left.. IIRC, a bulk of red reserve force will show up as the last defence of p'yangyong, PRC reinforcement may move fast thru p'yangyong to south..while waiting blue units move north to p'yangyong, i'll wipe out as many AD units along the route as possible, clear the airspace for strikers/attackers, prepare for the last main battle at the south p'yangyong area.

BTW - as blue dominated the sky, A-10 flights have better survival chance, and become more active...imo A-10 is too vulnerable in 2012 scenerio.. in the face of SA12/15/17 and advanced mig/Su, it has low survival chance, and too slow to evade the persuit of modern fighters. Players will have no joy in A-10 unless other fighters cleared the sky.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-01-05 14:32:04

yeah~ i win :mrgreen:

on Day7 0200, i ordered a ROK armour unit moving to capture all political spots in p'yangyong.. and the campaign ended. 8-)

as i've cleared most ground units there, the final stage is smooth and fluent.. no resistance.

the 2012 campaign is truely tough in the first few days, i almost gave up.. untill more allied reinforcement arrived..yeah, more F-22 squadrons, make life much easier.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by Snake Man » 2009-01-05 17:24:06

Wow congratulations man! :D

It was very interesting to read your campaign AAR, thanks.
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-01-06 01:47:38

As i saved the campaign few hours before it ended, i loaded it back and ran time compression 16x in 2d for observation..

till Day 7 1700, the war continued - blue side capture even more red AFBs, and 3-4 units already gathered around pyang'yong south.. they won't take out the last political spot to end the war.. just waiting, or clearing towns around the capital city. in this way, it just a matter of time to win.. without simmer intervention.

Since i capture most DPRK AFBs, DPRK air activities is minimal.. instead i noted increased china air activities over korea.. waves of J10/JH7/su30/J11 and H6 rushing to stop blue side.. probably due to DB bugs/settings, F16/F22 can not wipe out china ac effectively..i saw severeal JH7/H6 survived blue intercepts..ideally none of the two types can pass the BARCAP.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-01-10 12:11:22

I started testing DoctorX's third campaign, North Typhoon..

this campaign is much easier for blue side.. the timeframe is around late 80-early 90. so Blue side has better ac and armed with aim120. the Red side only got outdated mig21/23/29A. tho red has more ac, i feel much easier and relax when engaging them.. not that dangerous as advanced mig/su in campaign 2012.

As red side has limited bombers, i found blue AFBs survive well. so A-10 sq keep operational and do good job.. A10 cleared most invading ground units at east part of DMZ. The west part of DMZ was covered by AH64, also did good job wiping out red armies.

the DPRK side of DMZ is covered by old SA2/SA3, in a belt pattern. the SAM umbrella was cleared in half a day. :lol:

So far the campaign progressing nicely, no tension. :mrgreen: the first wave of red army is neutralized.. if no second wave coming, i expect Blue side may start ground offensive on Day 2 or 3.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by molnibalage » 2009-01-10 20:40:03

Do you want to a real challencing campaign in Korea with real loadouts and OOB? Just wait my tweaks. :) The Realism MOD v.0.1 is a small step towards to this.

I plan modelling the 1989-1991 state with a little fictional state. IRL MiG-21bis AC were brought in the early / middle of '90. Insted of this I will out into them.

How can do a real challencing campaign easily and fast?

1. Change the role scores of some red jet. J-5, J-6, Q-5, H-5 do much more CAS mission. J-5s don't fly any.

2. Change the priorties of red side. J-5s and J-6s AC attack too many times wortless targets. What staic targets do count? Airbases, radars and maybe depots. End. IRL why want to destroy the hight tech industrrual of RoK the DRPK? They want to capture it.

3. Balancing the numbers of engineers. There are definitely to few...

4. Positioning SAMs better on red side. The FLOT is totally undended...

5. Making real battalion inventory for ground untis. Mistrals, K-200 AD, K-30BIHO weren't in service with great qty. before 1991.

6. Some 2D stat data is not good. 2D world events are too far from 3D world.

I have tried a test campaign with the listed thing. With 2:1 force ratio (IRL that was around 1989) DPRK has chance to win.
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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-01-14 02:11:37

back to test [Northern Typhoon].

the situation remains excellent on Day3. looks quite easy and relax.

at East coast, troops captures Wonson area and neighboring airstrips.. but Wonson AFB remain red. more blue units gathering to secure it.. no red moving unit noted.
along the middle axis of attack, troops already secured Koksan AFB and Kokasn airstrip. more units following.
at West coast, a bit slow, troops captured onjin AFB and some airstips, about 1/3 way to P'yanyong.

Both sides got some reinforcement- sometimes a small scale ambush by red army, at the flank of west coast. A10 and AH64 did good job to nail them. .. and now i have 3 sq of A10!!

As more red AFBs fell to blue, i noted Red side increased the sorties from remaining AFBs.. mig29A flights from NW DPRK area started to disrupt A-10 missions. i also subjectively "feel" the F16-aim120 combo became less effective against mig29A-AA10 in this stage( in 2d map)..several flights of F16 intercepting mig29A, no score.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-01-15 15:24:13

I win- again :lol:

campaign Northern Typhoon ends on Day 4, 0210. I speed it up by ordering a HQ unit move to capture east p'yongyang and west p'yongyang, last two political spots, then ended the war. :wink:

During the last stage of campaign, i noticed..

- more and more units gathering around Wonson but Wonson AFB remaining RED. then, as more infantry units entered this area, suddenly Wonson captured by Blue. so it does not seem to be obj-linking bug.

- blue attack axis, middle route stopped at Kokson AFB, some infantry closing p'yongyang then stayed consolidation.. the west route, most blue units is in hold position.. it seems nearby RED airborne units make them hesitate to move north. in other korea campaign, west route forces tend to clear most hostile along Onjin AFB and west coast, then concentrate the force to attack p'yongyang.

- there is no strong reinforcement from PRC, CIS, and DPRK in this mod. I assumed i'll encounter tough and massive red ground reinforcement - no. the resistance is sparse or none. Blue air power simply dominated the sky.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by DewDog_2 » 2009-03-04 14:26:56

In all 3 campaigns when select the Squadron based on Sokcho Highway Strip when you Commit to flight you hang at Pie2 for 2 minutes and then get kicked back to the UI.

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Re: DoctorX's new campaigns for default Korea/FF4

Post by ccc » 2009-03-04 14:46:12

DewDog_2 wrote:In all 3 campaigns when select the Squadron based on Sokcho Highway Strip when you Commit to flight you hang at Pie2 for 2 minutes and then get kicked back to the UI.
hmm.. i just install FF5.. and it removes all FF4 files, so i can't check it.

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