Recon Flight ATO Sortie rate

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Recon Flight ATO Sortie rate

Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-29 17:08:58

I'm am fiddling around trying to get OH-58Ds and MD-500 helos to do recon missions via the ATO in campaign. But I can't get them to automatically make recon or recon patrol missions.

I can create a mission using the Add package feature in AF just fine. I've tried upping the recon and recon patrol values in the campaign *.pri files for CAS, Interdiction, Defense and Offense to no effect.

Any ideas on anything else I could try to get these missions to be generated in the campaign ATO?

thanks
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-10-29 17:24:00

I dont know.

However I have related question; what does recon matter in the campaign, I mean we all can see the god's eye view of objectives, so recon is only limited of spotting enemy units? By special recon helos on recon missions doing this, is no different than any other allied aircraft flying withing "sensor range" of any enemy units?
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Re: Recon Flight ATO Sortie rate

Post by marvin157th » 2007-10-29 18:08:37

Sherlock wrote:I'm am fiddling around trying to get OH-58Ds and MD-500 helos to do recon missions via the ATO in campaign. But I can't get them to automatically make recon or recon patrol missions.

I can create a mission using the Add package feature in AF just fine. I've tried upping the recon and recon patrol values in the campaign *.pri files for CAS, Interdiction, Defense and Offense to no effect.

Any ideas on anything else I could try to get these missions to be generated in the campaign ATO?

thanks
Sherlock,

Have you tried using F4Browse and setting those objects so they only perform recon tasks? This is how I edited my campaigns to make objects only do a desired task.

Jody

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Post by lamurt » 2007-10-29 18:16:05

Sherlock; apart from what Marvin sez, i guess you've already tweaked Teams > Bonus/Priorities of the .cam file with TacEditor?
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-29 21:20:30

lamurt wrote:Sherlock; apart from what Marvin sez, i guess you've already tweaked Teams > Bonus/Priorities of the .cam file with TacEditor?
@ lamurt: No I haven't. Thanks for that input. I will try that.

@ Jody: Don't know if I can do that here Jody since I'm not confident that LPBrowse will save the changes for a AF version of the files in the objects folder. Did you use Allied Force for the changes you made and it worked fine?
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-29 22:02:00

Snake Man wrote:I dont know.

However I have related question; what does recon matter in the campaign, I mean we all can see the god's eye view of objectives, so recon is only limited of spotting enemy units? By special recon helos on recon missions doing this, is no different than any other allied aircraft flying withing "sensor range" of any enemy units?
Fair question.

For those real life campaigns where recon helos are used in real life to perform reconnassiance missions. This frees up strike aircraft and/or augments strike aircraft spotting enemy units.
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Post by marvin157th » 2007-10-29 22:16:53

Sherlock wrote:
lamurt wrote:Sherlock; apart from what Marvin sez, i guess you've already tweaked Teams > Bonus/Priorities of the .cam file with TacEditor?
@ lamurt: No I haven't. Thanks for that input. I will try that.

@ Jody: Don't know if I can do that here Jody since I'm not confident that LPBrowse will save the changes for a AF version of the files in the objects folder. Did you use Allied Force for the changes you made and it worked fine?
Sherlock,

I don't use F4AF.. BUt it worked like a charm for me in OF.

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Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-29 23:20:58

lamurt wrote:Sherlock; apart from what Marvin sez, i guess you've already tweaked Teams > Bonus/Priorities of the .cam file with TacEditor?
Ok, I tried this and didn't have any effect.
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-29 23:23:10

marvin157th wrote:
Sherlock wrote:
lamurt wrote:Sherlock; apart from what Marvin sez, i guess you've already tweaked Teams > Bonus/Priorities of the .cam file with TacEditor?
@ lamurt: No I haven't. Thanks for that input. I will try that.

@ Jody: Don't know if I can do that here Jody since I'm not confident that LPBrowse will save the changes for a AF version of the files in the objects folder. Did you use Allied Force for the changes you made and it worked fine?
Sherlock,

I don't use F4AF.. BUt it worked like a charm for me in OF.

Jody
Jody,
how did you use F4Browse to change them to just perform recon task? I looked in LPBrowse and they show the role for the OH-58D and the MD-500 at both RECON=60 and NONE=10. Is this the F4Browse section you are talking about? If so they are already there....?
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Re: Recon Flight ATO Sortie rate

Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-30 05:34:52

marvin157th wrote:
Sherlock wrote:I'm am fiddling around trying to get OH-58Ds and MD-500 helos to do recon missions via the ATO in campaign. But I can't get them to automatically make recon or recon patrol missions.

I can create a mission using the Add package feature in AF just fine. I've tried upping the recon and recon patrol values in the campaign *.pri files for CAS, Interdiction, Defense and Offense to no effect.

Any ideas on anything else I could try to get these missions to be generated in the campaign ATO?

thanks
Sherlock,

Have you tried using F4Browse and setting those objects so they only perform recon tasks? This is how I edited my campaigns to make objects only do a desired task.

Jody
Jody,
How exactly did you do this? Under the "Role Scores" area of F4Browse/LPBrowse I see "None" is set to "10" and "Recon" is set to "60". I upped the RECON one to 100 and tried it again but still "no joy". Was this it? Any other suggestions?

Thanks!
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Post by marvin157th » 2007-10-30 06:10:33

Sherlock,

Yeah that is pretty much it. If you assign the task to full value, then that will be the missions tasked to it, as long as the ATO is tasking those types of missions.

What you have to do now is counter those tasks, by removing all RECON values from other jets in your campaign. This is what I did to ensure my jets were tasked. For example, if I wanted my CGs to perform most of the strikes, I lowered the value of strikes to other jets.

Jody

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Post by lamurt » 2007-10-30 09:49:42

Sherlock: pretty weird mate, those priorities should have some effect...?!

otoh, if i know one thing,, it is the ATO is pretty bad in tasking those kind of support missions like recce, airlift etc etc IF it's under user control.
in short, instead of cranking up the slider all the way right just leave the ato on auto and it see if it will task recce flights on it's own.
-murad

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Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-30 20:04:27

lamurt wrote:Sherlock: pretty weird mate, those priorities should have some effect...?!

otoh, if i know one thing,, it is the ATO is pretty bad in tasking those kind of support missions like recce, airlift etc etc IF it's under user control.
in short, instead of cranking up the slider all the way right just leave the ato on auto and it see if it will task recce flights on it's own.
@lamurt: Tried leaving the ATO under HQ control and the PAKs under HQ control and had no luck either way. Funny thing is, that when I changed the specialty of the OH-58D squadron from GENERAL (no selection) to AIR-TO-AIR it starts cranking out BARCAPS at the very start of the campaign. I just wish you could set a specialty of RECON and I would have this fixed! :)
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Post by Ed_1 » 2007-10-31 13:03:10

the MD500 and OH58D are already priortized for recon missions only (only role value is recon).

Depending on how you run your campaign, it will either use priority values from cam file (if you mess with sliders (HQ off), or with HQ on uses indict.pri file.

you might have to lower some other sliders but you should get recon patrol missions generated, at least seems to work fine last time I checked.

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Post by Sherlock » 2007-10-31 15:29:33

Ed_1 wrote:the MD500 and OH58D are already priortized for recon missions only (only role value is recon).

Depending on how you run your campaign, it will either use priority values from cam file (if you mess with sliders (HQ off), or with HQ on uses indict.pri file.

you might have to lower some other sliders but you should get recon patrol missions generated, at least seems to work fine last time I checked.
Here's the setup Ed; I hope you can direct me to success! :)
I'm using a SP4.2 CAM file with the latest TacEdit (V2.48). I'm trying this in the Israeli theater in Allied Force so, yeh, I am using AF campaign files with the exception of the SP4.2 CAM file. So the indict.pri file is the AF version. I can put the SP4.2 version of Korea into the AF Korea campaign folder and it DOES generate the MD-500 recon flights just fine so it appears to be the cause of the Israeli theater...

Any other suggestions on what may be causing this hiccup? I've tried everything I can think of at this point.

P.S. The sliders don't appear to have any effect as well as whether the campaign is entirely under the control of the HQ or just the ATO under HQ control (I've tried running with the recon value in the indict.pri file set to 100 as well as setting the recon value in the CAM file to 100.
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Post by Ed_1 » 2007-10-31 16:37:40

Sherlock wrote:
Ed_1 wrote:the MD500 and OH58D are already priortized for recon missions only (only role value is recon).

Depending on how you run your campaign, it will either use priority values from cam file (if you mess with sliders (HQ off), or with HQ on uses indict.pri file.

you might have to lower some other sliders but you should get recon patrol missions generated, at least seems to work fine last time I checked.
Here's the setup Ed; I hope you can direct me to success! :)
I'm using a SP4.2 CAM file with the latest TacEdit (V2.48). I'm trying this in the Israeli theater in Allied Force so, yeh, I am using AF campaign files with the exception of the SP4.2 CAM file. So the indict.pri file is the AF version. I can put the SP4.2 version of Korea into the AF Korea campaign folder and it DOES generate the MD-500 recon flights just fine so it appears to be the cause of the Israeli theater...

Any other suggestions on what may be causing this hiccup? I've tried everything I can think of at this point.

P.S. The sliders don't appear to have any effect as well as whether the campaign is entirely under the control of the HQ or just the ATO under HQ control (I've tried running with the recon value in the indict.pri file set to 100 as well as setting the recon value in the CAM file to 100.
well if they get tasked with the older sp4 file then must be something in your cam file.
Only thing I can think off top of my head is see if making sure your helo squadron location is with a objective with helo parking points (PD type14).
other than that maybe reset those objectives (remove/replace making sure its AF DB).

Make sure your using right mission.dat too cause i think recon patrol is for army helo only.

Ed

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Post by Sherlock » 2007-11-01 14:15:53

Ed_1 wrote: well if they get tasked with the older sp4 file then must be something in your cam file.
Only thing I can think off top of my head is see if making sure your helo squadron location is with a objective with helo parking points (PD type14).
other than that maybe reset those objectives (remove/replace making sure its AF DB).

Make sure your using right mission.dat too cause i think recon patrol is for army helo only.

Ed
Ed,
I tried these items last night and no luck. I even cleaned out a SP4.2 Korea CAM file and reimported the objectives and remade the MD-500 and OH-58 squadrons. I made sure that the locations (objectives) I placed the helo squadrons were on those objectives with the type 14 helo pads in the PD data. I even upped the recon value in the indict.pri file to 100 and in the CAM file but still nothing. I can task the squadrons manually just fine but the ATO just won't task them. The only other far-out thing I've noticed (this is really reaching) is that even though the helos are based at army bases those army bases are showing up as runway (airbase) icons in the campaign start screen so you can click on them and select that squadron to start the campaign in. Would that make a difference with this (I wouldn't think so...)?

Any other ideas or suggestions are very welcome as I am out of ideas on this one.
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Post by Ed_1 » 2007-11-01 15:11:28

Sherlock wrote:
Ed_1 wrote: well if they get tasked with the older sp4 file then must be something in your cam file.
Only thing I can think off top of my head is see if making sure your helo squadron location is with a objective with helo parking points (PD type14).
other than that maybe reset those objectives (remove/replace making sure its AF DB).

Make sure your using right mission.dat too cause i think recon patrol is for army helo only.

Ed
Ed,
I tried these items last night and no luck. I even cleaned out a SP4.2 Korea CAM file and reimported the objectives and remade the MD-500 and OH-58 squadrons. I made sure that the locations (objectives) I placed the helo squadrons were on those objectives with the type 14 helo pads in the PD data. I even upped the recon value in the indict.pri file to 100 and in the CAM file but still nothing. I can task the squadrons manually just fine but the ATO just won't task them. The only other far-out thing I've noticed (this is really reaching) is that even though the helos are based at army bases those army bases are showing up as runway (airbase) icons in the campaign start screen so you can click on them and select that squadron to start the campaign in. Would that make a difference with this (I wouldn't think so...)?

Any other ideas or suggestions are very welcome as I am out of ideas on this one.
Hi

On Icon I think that happens if you running "fly-any-plane" enabled. You should see proper icon in 2d map UI, armybase should show as armybase icon with helo squadron located there.

I really don't know what's your problem is, only thing i would do is compare data and flags between working cam and yours.
Also make sure your teams data setup right, I assume this is already ok if other flights are working. Do you have JSTAR up in air from the beginning, maybe if you do, have it come in at a later time (maybe campaign don't need recon Intel), that's just wild guess.

Sorry campaign creation is not really my speciality.

Ed

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Post by molnibalage » 2007-11-06 22:20:17

I create a new campaign and I tried use the different recon squadrons as you. So I put OH-58, RF-5E and RF-4C squadrons into the '83 campaign.
I didn't change the ATO or any value with F4Browse or Tacedit and they flied missions! Not too much but they did. Tested the recon Vigilante and flied too.

Interesting.

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Post by Sherlock » 2007-11-06 23:03:02

molnibalage wrote:I create a new campaign and I tried use the different recon squadrons as you. So I put OH-58, RF-5E and RF-4C squadrons into the '83 campaign.
I didn't change the ATO or any value with F4Browse or Tacedit and they flied missions! Not too much but they did. Tested the recon Vigilante and flied too.

Interesting.
Yes, you did your testing in Korea theater though. I am trying to get them running in a Israel Theater. Ed_1 thinks it is probably having a problem because of there being two FLOTS (north with Syria and South with Egypt) plus FLOTs don't work well across water he said.

But thanks for your input on this :)
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Post by marvin157th » 2007-11-07 06:18:51

I wonder if RECON flights actually have a purpose in Falcon? Cause I tend to get rid of them in my campaigns, and still win.

Jody

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Post by molnibalage » 2007-11-07 09:20:03

marvin157th wrote:I wonder if RECON flights actually have a purpose in Falcon? Cause I tend to get rid of them in my campaigns, and still win.

Jody
Good question. After sunset on the UI screen can't detect the combat and support units, but as I can remember the air defense units still shows. VERY interesting. I think this part should be modified in the future because very unreal that I can locate most of SAM untis locations.
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Post by Snake Man » 2007-11-07 11:09:01

As the second post of this topic ... :)
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Post by Sherlock » 2007-11-07 16:08:45

molnibalage wrote:
marvin157th wrote:I wonder if RECON flights actually have a purpose in Falcon? Cause I tend to get rid of them in my campaigns, and still win.

Jody
Good question. After sunset on the UI screen can't detect the combat and support units, but as I can remember the air defense units still shows. VERY interesting. I think this part should be modified in the future because very unreal that I can locate most of SAM untis locations.
Actually, this is realistic as the ADA are emitting sites (radar) which can be detected and tracked while combat and supply units usually don't use emitters which can be detected and tracked.
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Post by Ed_1 » 2007-11-11 13:39:50

recon flights are tactical importance, but if you already have JSTAR up in patrol then not so much.
Just make sure of JSTAR range, anything outside that recon flights can bring new info/Intel.

PS: this is AF , if i remember recon is not so much needed in older versions.
AF is more dependant on intel/sensors from your side.

Ed

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