ODS v0.512

Operation Desert Storm theater

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Tazz » 2003-07-20 22:44:00

Which IRC network?
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by 87th_striker » 2003-07-20 22:53:00

Newnet

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by 87th_striker » 2003-07-20 22:57:00

btw...

Image
A beautiful transition..

Image
Depot disappearing….(and they wonder where all the WMD’s went ??? )

Image
Irrigation channel ( Watch out for old men with muskets….!!! )

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by 87th_striker » 2003-07-20 22:59:00

Some more here: http://home.broadpark.no/~oteide/index.htm

Campaign Iraq Freedom works fine so far, Snake Man :D

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Tazz » 2003-07-21 02:05:00

It's getting very late so I'll keep this brief. Any spelling mistakes ought to be forgiven :)


Campaign:

This campaign is set in a current-day setting. Iraq actually got away with the 1991 Kuwait invasion and thus Kuwait became part of Iraq. The west failed to generate the requried Arab support to attack Iraq.

A good 10 years later, Iraq's economy is crippled due to UN boycots (a reaction to the 1991 invasion) and the fact that the Iraqi leadership rather invests in their military equipment instead of the welfare of the country. The Kuwaiti oil fields were note enough and on one foggy morning the Iraqi army crosses the Saudi/Kuwaiti borders in a Blitzkrieg style attack.

The Saudi Forces are overrun and in a few days Iraq manages to capture most of Saudi Arabia. Whatever US forces and units were present in Saudi Arabia managed to reach the safety of Qatar.

Iraq now holds roughly 80% of Saudi Arabia, with only the south-west region (bottom-right on the ODS theater map) not occupied - pretty much from Qatar on down. Not all the coast region has been occupied either, with Saudi Arabia being such a vast country - the Iraqi army concentrated on the capital and the main military strong holds.

Although the US begins an immediate strong build-up of it's forces in Qatar, it's evident that Qatar too small to be an effective launching platform for a military campaign to free Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

However a sleeping giant awakes as Iran openly takes the US/Western side. With the UN embargo in place, Iran was able to move-up in the ranks of OPEC countries and enjoyed a sizable economic injection as it began to sell more and more oil. With the Saudi Oil reserves in the hands of Iraq and the immediate responds by several large arab, former USSR and asian countries that they would continue to purchase Saudi-produced oil, Iran sees its economy in immediate danger of collapse.

The unthinkable happens but Iran and the Western coalition form a rock-steady alliance against Iraq on the condition that Turkey and Isreal stay out of this conflict.

Iran not only supplies bases but becomes a major part in the coalation together with UAE and Qatar.

This campaign would see a very interesting coalition vs a very strong Iraq which is spread out all over Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

We could see a 2-front attack: a large military force launched from Iran to capture Baghdad and Basra (campaign objectives) and a large military force from South-West Saudi Arabia/Qatar to capture Kuwait City and perhaps some key-Saudi strategic cities which would also be campaign objectives.

We'd see also very interesting ORBATs on both sides. We can easily fill in the US side of things but more interestingly, we would see a nice Iran AF participating along side the US forces and a strong Iraq, which didn't suffer from the '91 Desert Storm war as.. that never took place. :)

Now because that never took place, Iran wouldn't have the MiG-29s and SU-24s which fled from Iraq to Iran however.. we can still have these in as Iran could have purchased these from Russia, an immediate indication of their economic growth.

So very quickly, on the Western/Iran side we could see aircraft such as:

US/RAF/Australia/France:
- F-16, F-18, F-111, Tornado, A-10, Mirage 2000, AV-8, F-117, B-52, B-1B, B-2, E-2, E-3, C-5, C-130, KC-135, KC-10, F-15C/E etc.

Iran:
- F-4, F-14 (!!), MiG-29, SU-24, Su-27 (?? why not? purchased from Russia), MiG-25/MiG-31 (ditto or would we have too many Russian aircraft on the "Blue side"?), MiG-19/J-6 (should still have one squadron operational), MiG-21/J-7, F-5s, C-130.

Even if we don't give Iran the Su-27s, MiG-25/31s, think we should let them have the MIG-29s and Su-24s (got some nice Viperwear skins for these don't we?) and the J6/J7s are authentic. Iran has no SU-25s but with it's ties with China (Iran uses the F-7 is fairly large numbers), we could make the Q-5 a believable option for Iran, couldn't we?

UAE:
- Mirage 2000

And we can also throw in some "Free Kuwait" A-4 Skyhawks which managed to escape to Saudi Arabia after the '91 invasion and now in turn escaped to Qatar!

On the Iraq side we'd see things like:

- MiG-23, Su-22, An-24, IL-76/A-50 (why not?), MiG-25 (and why not also some MiG-31s newly bought to supplement the existing MiG-25 in Iraqi service), MiG-21, MiG-29, Su-25 and the Su-24.

Except the MiG-31 and An-50, the above is all authentic. We're 10 years further after the 91-Gulf-War which didn't happen in our scenario and with the strong ties with Syria I don't think it would be too unlikely to include some SU-27/Su-30 aircraft as well. We don't have the Mirage F1 and given them the Mirage 2000 is unbelievable. Iraq operates mainly Russian gear, we could have the Iraqi Su-7 remain in service until now .. serving next to the Su-22 and Su-25 in the attack role.

Iraq actually had several Tu-22s in service and used them in the Iran-Iraq war. Desert Storm quickly put these into 'retirement' :D but we could bring these back to be Iraq's heavy bomber. Is the Tu-22 usable in F4/Sp3 or Sp4? If not - would the Tu-95 be a believable and usable option?

And we haven't even started to discuss AAA/SAM and ground forces yet.


What do you guys think of such a campaign?
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by ccc » 2003-07-21 05:00:00

nice screenies.

for campaigns, i still like old styles. 1991 ODS classic- tank busting in A10 and turkey-shooting with AIM7, no, no amraam.

historical iran vis Iraq sounds cool.

fictional campaign? heard Iran will be next target, no?

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ender Wiggin » 2003-07-21 05:30:00

Id like to see a realistic OIF campaign, even though there wasnt an airwar, it would still be fun to shoot down the SAMs, drop LGB's, and WCMDs from a CCIP Viper in a realistic setting type of Campaign.

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by RobC_F4 » 2003-07-21 06:57:00

quote:Originally posted by Ender Wiggin:
Id like to see a realistic OIF campaign, even though there wasnt an airwar, it would still be fun to shoot down the SAMs, drop LGB's, and WCMDs from a CCIP Viper in a realistic setting type of Campaign.
Just let us know when it's done & ready to D/L, have to make arrangements to "break the work RULEZ regarding size". And, please get it on an FTP site as well, at least WS FTP clients, others recover well fom lost connections ...

Regards - Rob
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ender Wiggin » 2003-07-21 07:03:00

You arent the only one, im looking forward to the new ODS

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by kinggeorge » 2003-07-21 14:01:00

I would like to think of the imminent ODS 512 as a basis for either the people that have already worked on or want to work on theaters to make ODS a theater that can compete with Korea or Balkans in form of campaings, ATC, ATO, TE availability, objects, quality tiling etc.!

I mean - we have several campaings inculded and it is fully 512 plus a large 128 theater. That is a start and not the end. - depending on you out there of course.

I'm sure snakeman, Widowmaker and the other cracks will gladly help everyone with questions but don't think that there is some sort of ghost group working on ODS... :)

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by RobC_F4 » 2003-07-21 21:21:00

kinggeorge -

Think you made your point very well. I can't speak for the Free Falcon vs UT "fiasco" - but as a former ViperOps member (hope I am allowed to say that here?!) :)

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Snake Man » 2003-07-22 23:40:00

Check out the theater / campaign list from the first page of this topic (middle of the page).
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by RobC_F4 » 2003-07-23 09:19:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
Check out the theater / campaign list from the first page of this topic (middle of the page).
Yeah SnakeMan, this is going to be one 260MB Download and "Falcon Dance" (that's the ONLY way to be sure you are "clean" :D (Spelling, WTF!)

Regards - Rob
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Snake Man » 2003-07-23 11:04:00

For crying out loud, I was writing forum post when there was thunder and lightning rebooted my computer.

So in a nutshell: ODS sucks. But tile-makers with tiles and Widowmaker with theater-dir have done great job.
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by RobC_F4 » 2003-07-23 12:03:00

Stop being so bloody modest :o all of you have done a great job :D
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Snake Man » 2003-07-24 18:17:00

quote:Originally posted by Tazz:
Iraq now holds roughly 80% of Saudi Arabia, with only the south-west region (bottom-right on the ODS theater map) not occupied - pretty much from Qatar on down.


Could you take the ODS map (which you pasted to me in IRC the other day) and "paint" there the Iraq and Saudi occupation areas.

I could try to setup this campaign objective ownerships and PAK map so we can start to build something useful.
quote:We could see a 2-front attack: a large military force launched from Iran to capture Baghdad and Basra (campaign objectives) and a large military force from South-West Saudi Arabia/Qatar to capture Kuwait City
Should be no problem setting such objectives for the campaign, the FLOT would be two part and across the Gulf, but I think it would work since its only water (no objectives/ground units).
quote:What do you guys think of such a campaign?
I think this is would be very large and interesting campaign.

Setup the occupation map and I'll snatch up a campaign for it so you can start to tweak and plan it more.
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by kinggeorge » 2003-07-24 18:36:00

Snake_Man just to remind you we need an own objects folder ;)

Raptor how about a nice skinpack for ods ;)

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by 87th_striker » 2003-07-24 18:40:00

Was flying into Iran the other night, checking out the Kharg terminal and airbase. The guys were really friendly, and didn't shoot after me. I think we should provide more oil installations in the area, but Kharg looked good. I proceeded deeper into Iran to check the looks of stuff. Suddenly the tiles went to some very low res stuff, and after a while I got clouds from ceiling to floor. The clouds stayed with me on the detour also. Anyway something is not good over in Iran, so please take a look.

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Snake Man » 2003-07-24 19:58:00

quote:Originally posted by kinggeorge:
Snake_Man just to remind you we need an own objects folder
Raptor how about a nice skinpack for ods ;)


You have to discuss this with Widowmaker, he made me remove the ODS objects/database/skins.
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by kinggeorge » 2003-07-24 20:04:00

quote:Originally posted by 87th_striker:
Anyway something is not good over in Iran, so please take a look.
Same for me since all prebetas i flew... really weird...

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Widowmaker » 2003-07-24 20:30:00

yeah objectsdir is out.

We decided that it would be best for theaters
to not have own objects dir from the start.

As of SP4 f4patch will be able to quicky make it enabled though. (like the DesstormActivationPatch).
this patch will be few kilobytes and later be intergarted in a SP4theaterinstaller for ODS.

But this SP3 beta here, and that one will not have its own objects dir.
We could could ofcoarse hold off betarelease till sp4 is ready then I can make all work as intended (with objectdir)

Skinpatches should not at all be in Theaterinstaller, other groups/persons should compile a Skinpack for ODS and release/update it seperate rom the theaterinstaller.

/widmak
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by RobC_F4 » 2003-07-24 20:55:00

quote:Originally posted by Widowmaker:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We could could ofcoarse hold off betarelease till sp4 is ready then I can make all work as intended (with objectdir)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
/widmak
Don't think this is a good idea, SP4 could still be a long way off the way I see it and I think a lot of users that want to work on the new Campaign stuff will probably choose to stay with SP3 initially ... I know that would be my choice. And we want more involvement in the Camp. Area, no? Or have I missed soething here?

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by 87th_striker » 2003-07-25 05:51:00

Good decision about objectsdir, guys. I hate the short waiting periods of 3 - 4 weeks.

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Widowmaker » 2003-07-25 07:00:00

quote:Originally posted by GISbyRob/RobC_F4:
And we want more involvement in the Camp. Area, no? Or have I missed soething here?
Regards - Rob
Well I am sure that if someone wants to work on camps in ODS that Snakeman can provide a dev package for them so they can start working.

I will look today in the copying of the dir.
it can be done right now.
Bit the skinpak would be released sepratly from it.

/widmak
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ender Wiggin » 2003-07-25 08:29:00

i wouldnt mind making the campaigns, not a bad idea, could do OIF as well.

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Tazz » 2003-07-25 09:53:00

quote:Originally posted by Snake Man:
I think this is would be very large and interesting campaign.

Setup the occupation map and I'll snatch up a campaign for it so you can start to tweak and plan it more.
I'm on it this week - hoped to do it at work but swamped with work at the moment.
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by RobC_F4 » 2003-07-25 12:58:00

quote:Originally posted by Widowmaker:
Well I am sure that if someone wants to work on camps in ODS that Snakeman can provide a dev package for them so they can start working.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
/widmak
Have to learn sometime, seems like I have the time (did not say brains :( !) and you have the need ...
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by kinggeorge » 2003-07-25 13:10:00

quote:Originally posted by Widowmaker:
Skinpatches should not at all be in Theaterinstaller, other groups/persons should compile a Skinpack for ODS and release/update it seperate rom the theaterinstaller.

/widmak
rgr - but is it possible to make a skinpak that applies skins only for ods without changing anything in the default korea then?

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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Tazz » 2003-07-25 16:35:00

I just wrote Jetfighter a mail with some info on the campaign I have in mind.. might as well post it here too, for some feedback.

Snake, map is forthcoming :)


I'm not sure what skins are already outthere so if I'v listed any doubles, please forgive me :)

I see two possibly very interesting campaings here. I'll list them very very shortly, see the PMC forum for a more
detailed description. I'll have to sit down and write these all down in great detail anyways.

SCENARIO

Campaign 1: Liberation of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait

This first scenario assumes that the West failed to build an Arab backed coaltion following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. A very likely scenario as the Arab world was quite devided on the issue. Following this invasion, the UN sanctions against Iraq prohibit it to exploit the Kuwaiti oil reserves. However, countries like the former Soviet-states continue to purchase black-market oil from Iraq which is sold for far less than the OPEC price per barrel.
In return these countries supply Iraq with modern weapons, tanks, aircraft, SAM/AAA systems etc.

However due to the limit export possibilties and the Iraqi economy now on the decline, the Iraqi military leadship opts for a daring plan. By invading Saudi Arabia and securing the large oil fields of this rich Kingdom, Iraq will also put a dagger in the heart of OPEC. With OPEC in disarray and a large portion of the Middle Eastern oil reserves firmly in Iraqi hands, Iraq can now hold the western economies hostage. Iraq learned this tactic from history; in the early 70s Arab countries stopped exporting oil to these Western countries who supported Israel during the Yom Kipur War. Immediately Western economies plunged into a deep hole now referred to as "The Oil Crises".

Almost 13 years after succesfully invading Kuwait, the Iraqi Armed Forces launch a Blitzkrieg-style offensive against Saudi Arabia. Although equipped with modern military equipment and aircraft, the Royal Saudi Armed Forces are no match for the combat veterans of the Iraqi Reguar Army and Guard units.
The Iraqi army quickly pushed the Saudi army back and captured key cities like King Halid Military City, Al Jubayf, Rumah, Unayzah.
With the fall of Ryad inevitable, the Royal Family fled to the United Arab Emirates. To avoid capture by the Iraqi's, the remaining Saudi Air Force aircraft fled to Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE. The Squadron of "Free Kuwait" A-4 Skyhawks, which have been based in Saudi Arabia for nearly 13 years now, joins the remainder of the Saudi AF in it's dash for safety towards Bahrain and Qatar.

In less than 48 hours, the Iraqi's now occupied Saudi Arabia's cities, airports and military installations. Most of the airbases captured suffered little or no damage and quickly the Iraqi Air Force deployed from it's Iraqi bases to airbases in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. While planning this war, the Iraqi military leadership realized it's Air Force and Air Defense systems would become over-stretched after capturing and securing Saudi Arabia so secretly, it started expanding it's Air Force from the mid 90s. Iraq purchased several kinds of aircraft, more MiG-29s/23s/25s but also second hand 21s and fictionally bought some Su-27s and MiG-31s.
Besides that, Iraq also puchases T-72s and T-80s and several AAA/SAM systems such as the SA-6 and perhaps even some SA-10s?

Both the Western and Arab world is shocked by the Iraqi invasion of Saudi Arabia. With the West facing economic disaster and the neighbouring Arab nations facing a huge and instable security risk, both worlds quickly form a diplomatic and military alliance.
What couldn't be achieved 13 years ago was now possible, a Coaltion of Western and Arab Forces was established with the aim to free Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq.

American and European forces deploy to bases in Bahrain, Qatar and Iran where they prepare themselves for the massive battle at hand!


CAMPAIGN TACTICS and WARFARE

This campaign allows for a two-front war: one front will launch from un-occupied Saudi Arabia in the South-East and Qatar, the other offensive will launch from Iran. Both fronts will have seperate objectives. The first group (North) will attempt to capture important Iraqi cities and installations such as Baghdad, Bashra, Najaf, Kerbala, Tekrit and Kirkuk. The second group (South) will attempt to capture occupied cities and installations such as Ryad and Kuwait City. Ideally, both fronts should merge at Bashra and drive north into Iraq, to defeat any remaining resistance. Key cities such as Baghdad, Bashra, Kuwait City , Ryad - they could be the main campaign objectives and victory conditions?

As the area is huge and consists mostly of out desert - I think the main battles will be for these cities instead of major set-piece battles on the open planes. Iraqi AAA/SAM and troops will be based largely in the immediate neighbourhood of the major cities/installations in this campaign.


SKINS and MODELS

Here are all the aircraft which could participate in the above named theater/campaigns. These marked with an ! I'd consider pretty "vital" to great an accurate and believable campaign. These marked with an * would be "nice to haves" but not really essential. We can always write the story in such a way we can exclude these for a valid reason.


Extra Models required for this theater:

- Mirage F1
- A-4KU (A-4M) Skyhawk


Skins requried for this theater:

Iraq AF:

- Mirage F1 (which we don't have)
- MiG-29C!
- MiG-23 !
- MiG-27 !
- MiG-25R!
- MIG-21/J-7 !
- SU-22 !
- SU-25K !
- Tu-22 !
- Tu-16 !
- AN-50 ! (Although not a real AN-50, Iraq converted several Il-76s into an An-50-look-alike AWACS platform.)
- Mi-24 !
- An-26 *
- IL-76 *
- IL-78 *
- Mi-8/17 *

** FICTIONAL IRAQI PURCHASED AIRCRAFT:

- SU-27 (to supplement the MiG-29, delivered through the Ukraine?)
- MiG-31 (to supplement the MiG-25, delivered through White Russia?)

Iranian AF:

- F-14 !
- F-5E !
- F-4D/E !
- F-7/MiG-21 !
- F-6/MiG-19 !
- SU-24MK !
- MiG-29C ! (fact: Russian delivies in 1996)
- IL-76 ! (fact: Russian delivies in 1996)
- UH-1 *
- Mi-17 *
- AH-1F *
- C-130 *
- CH-47 *


Royal Saudi AF:

- F-5E !
- Tornado F3 !
- Tornado GR1 !
- F-15C/D !
- E-3A !


Kuwaiti AF:

- A-4KU (but we could use the A-4E model unless someone makes an A-4M/KU model with the high spine?).
Although not truely essential, I'd like to have these in the campaign. Also these "Free Kuwait" Skyhawks could be used in a more
historical Operation Desert Storm campaign.

Qatar AF:

- Mirage 2000 (desert camo), although not truely essential it would be great to have Qatar Mirage 2000's in this campaign. !/*

UAE AF:

- Mirage 2000 (single seaters in desert camo, dual seats in grey camo)

Bahrain AF:

- F-16C/D *
- F-5E *
- AH-1E *
- Bell 412/UH-1 *

Western Coalition Air Force:

We have skins for all of these:

USAF:

- A-10
- F-16CJ/CG
- F-15C/E
- F-4G (they don't REALLY need to be re-tired, do they? ;) )
- E-3
- E-8
- C-130
- C-5
- C-17
- B-52H
- B-1B
- F-117
- B-2
- KC-135
- KC-10

USN/USMC:

- F/A-18C/D
- F-14A/B/D
- E-2
- S-3
- AV-8B

US ARMY:

- AH-64
- UH-60

Other:

- F-111 (RAAF)
- Mirage 2000 (France)
- Tornado GR1/F3 (UK/Germany/Italy)
Tazz
87th VFW
Stray Dogs
www.87th.org

Ami
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ami » 2003-07-28 12:10:00

quote:Originally posted by Widowmaker:
hehe

Snakman does the spreading of the betas,
frankly said I donnot have the latest updates since I am away for the weekend.

so stay around in #falcon4theaters and try and catch Snakeman there.

/widmak

Hey bud, that´ll be nice to run through as long as it´s in a single install. ;-)

87th_striker
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by 87th_striker » 2003-07-28 19:11:00

Tazz !
Did you miss the F-15 S ? Along with the I and K, they are the most advanced F-15 exported, with perhaps the F-15K being the most advanced.

nucleon2
Newbie
Posts: 10
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Location: France

Re: ODS v0.512

Post by nucleon2 » 2003-07-29 05:56:00

High Snakeman,

I've search for your terrain directory but can't find ODS V.512. I've download the ODS V0.3 some time ago. Where can i find this new version ?

I've tried several theater with Falcon SP3, all of thoose are very good work and add extreme opening to falcon. I lived in France and of course i've tried the european theater => very good but i'm trying to make a new campaign for this theater, a campaign with a smaller flot.

I've the version 0.4 and the fix 01 for this theater

kinggeorge
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Location: Bozen/Bolzano - München

Re: ODS v0.512

Post by kinggeorge » 2003-07-29 05:58:00

quote:Originally posted by nucleon2:
High Snakeman,

I've search for your terrain directory but can't find ODS V.512. I've download the ODS V0.3 some time ago. Where can i find this new version ?
Where did u read it was already available ;)

nucleon2
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Posts: 10
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Location: France

Re: ODS v0.512

Post by nucleon2 » 2003-07-29 06:01:00

Oups !!!

Ender Wiggin
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN

Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ender Wiggin » 2003-07-29 08:00:00

quote:Originally posted by kinggeorge:
Where did u read it was already available ;)
Actually, i read on some forum that the 0.512 beta was already out, but im not in UT anymore, so i wouldnt know.

Widowmaker
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Posts: 1002
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Gaming Interests: Falcon 4.0
Editing Interests: Terrains
Location: The Netherlands

Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Widowmaker » 2003-07-29 08:12:00

When it is out you should read it on this forum, regardless of what team you are in :)

/widmak
Widmak

Ender Wiggin
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ender Wiggin » 2003-07-29 18:57:00

Very much true, would like to check out the campaigns for OIF, ive got the list of F-16CJ's that were used, the 13th, 22nd, 23rd, 77th, 157th, and 389th FS's, all have tail art for the FF1/SP4 model, not sure if those tails are done for SP3 or not.

Snake Man
Commander-In-Chief
Posts: 9338
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Snake Man » 2003-07-29 23:16:00

quote:Originally posted by Ender Wiggin:
the 13th, 22nd, 23rd, 77th, 157th, and 389th FS's
Do you know in which airbase(s) they were stationed?

Also any other squadron details would be very much appreciated.
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Ender Wiggin
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by Ender Wiggin » 2003-07-30 03:05:00

the 77th and 13th were at Prince Sultan, and the 157th and 389th were at Al Minhad, im not sure about the 22nd and 23rd. Ill check.

kinggeorge
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Re: ODS v0.512

Post by kinggeorge » 2003-07-30 08:14:00

quote:Originally posted by Ender Wiggin:
Very much true, would like to check out the campaigns for OIF,
Just a note - we do not wnat to sell the tiles so FF dont have to include them :o

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