"Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Vietnam theater

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toonces
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"Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-22 03:56:06

Hi all.

I've been working on some ideas with the Nevada campaign, and today I decided to try to expand upon those ideas in the Vietnam theater. In order to make sense of this mod, I have to provide a bit of background:

Motivation: The most limiting factor in PMC campaign building (imo), has been the lack of a 'working' ground war and working .tri files to create a goal-oriented, 'winnable' war. Therefore, we have two options to create a so-called working campaign; we can fix the ground war, or we can work around the ground war. This mod attempts the second option- to work around the ground war but still have a goal-oriented, winnable war.

Background: The Vietnam war was several years long. The air war itself was fought in phases, in addition to smaller continuous actions. But the most notable thing with respect to Falcon 4 and other PMC campaigns/theaters is that the historical Vietnam conflict took place in a timeframe that dwarfs the one in the stock Korea campaign, as well as many of the hypothetical campaigns (eg. Europe). The take-away is that in order to game the Vietnam conflict within the constraints of the Falocn 4 wargame engine, we must tackle a managable chunk. We can't game the entire war.

Furthermore, the stock Korea campaign within Falcon 4 depends upon a ground war for victory conditions. Yet, in the historical Vietnam war, while ground was gained and lost the ground war was not the basis for the historical 'victory conditions'. (In fact, we could open a huge can of worms discussing what would have constituted victory in Vietnam). Ultimately, the ground war is nearly irrelevant if we are looking to game the Vietnam war in Falcon 4, unless the scale was drawn into a very small area/battle.

The inspiration for this mod came from a war boardgame called, "Downtown", created by Lee Brimmicombe-Wood and published by GMT Games. "Downtown" games the Vietnam air war at a scale of 'raids', single sorties like the Navy's Alpha Strikes. The culmination of the game is the campaign system during which the player games a 3-7 day portion of the Vietnam air war. The ground war isn't simulated beyond air defenses and targets for the US player. This is the idea behind this Falcon 4 mod.

Execution: In order to fulfill these objectives, it is necessary to introduce a new paradigm for the approach to Falcon 4 campaigning. Why does the air war have to be fought with a ground war? Why does winning and losing have to be tied to ground objectives? In fact, why do we need to rely upon the Falcon 4 .tri file to decide victory or defeat for us? Can we not approach the campaign as a wargame in the boardgame tradition? Can we assign our own arbitrary victory conditions based upon our own scenario? Is this even possible within the Falcon 4 campaign engine?

Fundamental to the execution of a campaign in which we self-determine victory or defeat is: a) a firm delineation of what constitues a level of victory and b) a clear scoring system that can be self-implemented by the player with a minimum of confusion. These two factors must work within what we are capable of executing inside the limitations imposed by the Falcon 4 engine.

This goal of victory will be accomplished through an assignment of victory points awarded for targets destroyed, and campaign victory conditions will be determined on a scale based upon a cumulative victory point score.

Part 1: This mod alters the Vietnam1/save0.cam file.

The first step was to open up the file in Tacedit and make the following changes-
All aircraft for both sides were deleted. Helicopters were left in place.
No ground forces nor SAMs/AAA, etc. were adjusted.

The following US OOB was built-
Udon: 2xF-4C, 1xRF-101C, 1xKC-135
Korat: 2xF-105D, 1xF-105G (Wild Weasel), 2xF-4C, 1xF-4D
Takhli: 1xF-105D, 1xEA-6B, 1xKC-10

The following DPRV OOB was built-
Kep: 2xMiG-17F
Gia Lam: 1xMiG-17F, 1xMiG-21F-13
[**NOTE: all DPRV squadrons are given A-A specialty to prevent ground attack sorties generated by enemy ATO.]

Victory Points
In order to calculate victory conditions, victory points are awarded for succesfully attacking ground targets. Victory points are also awarded for SAMs and aircraft destroyed, and aircrew killed or captured.

Target List
Downtown provides a very nice target list. Unfortunately, many of the targets don't match perfectly with available targets within the PMC campaign. Fortunately, there are plenty of targets within the PMC campaign from which to choose to create a workable frag list.

The format is Target name, Location hex (ignore), Organization that can attack target, victory points for slight/medium/heavy damage. For purposes of this campaign, we will use VPs for med damage=damaged, heavy damage=destroyed.

Targets with a * are ones that are clearly identified by name in the PMC theater.

The following lists the US targets for the campaign:

*Kep airfield runway 1120 B USAF, USN 2/6/9
*Kep control tower C 1/4/6 (use radar)
*Kep aircraft revetments B 1/4/6 (use taxiways, hangars, etc)

Xuan Mai insurgency 2334 C USAF 3/7/11
school

*Thai Nguyen iron 0628 B USAF 3/7/11 (use Thai Nguyen Factory)
and steel complex

*Hoa Lac airfield 2035 B USAF 1/4/7
runway
*Hoa Lac control tower C 1/3/4 (radar)
*Hoa Lac aircraft B 1/3/4 (hangars, taxiways)
revetments

Canal des Rapides 1927 A USAF 3/7/11
Bridge (2 spans)

Hanoi railroad repair 2028 C USAF 2/6/9
shops

Yen Vien Railyard 1826 C USAF 2/6/9

Nguyen Khe 1628 D USAF 3/7/11
POL storage

Ha Dong Army 2130 C USAF 3/7/11
barracks

Hanoi railyard 2028 C USAF 2/6/9

Hanoi thermal 1929 B USAF 3/7/11
power plant

Hanoi Le Pap 1929 B USAF 3/7/11
transformer

Duong Nham POL 2013 D USN 3/7/11
storage

*Haiphong POL storage 2411 D USN 3/7/11 (use Haiphong Depot)

*Haiphong cement plant 2411 B USN 3/7/11(use Factory)

*Haiphong East 2410 B USN 3/7/11 (use Factory)
thermal power plant

Haiphong West 2411 B USN 3/7/11
thermal power plant

Uong Bi power station 1909 B USN 3/7/11

Bac Giang 1421 B USAF, USN 3/7/11
power station

Hon Gai railyard 2202 C USN 2/6/9

*Kien An airfield 2612 B USN 1/4/7
runway
*Kien An control tower C 1/3/4 (radar)
*Kien An aircraft revetments B 1/3/4 (hangars,taxiways)

Awarding Victory Points-US:
Target damaged or destroyed: use med damage VP number for damage in Falcon, heavy damage for destroyed in Falcon
2 VPs for each MiG shot down (damaged counts as kill)
1 VP for SAM site damaged
2 VP for SAM site destroyed

Awarding Victory Points-DPRV:
2 VPs for each US fighter lost
1 VP for each US crewmember lost (ie. 2 VP if F-4 shot down and crew KIA/MIA)
5 VP for each US bomber lost (eg. B-52)
1 VP for collateral damage (not implemented yet, keep as placeholder)


Victory Conditions:
The campaign victory conditions are dependent upon the campaign scenario. I built this scenario based upon the Campaign 1 in "Downtown". These represent the idea behind victory conditions- actual implementation will need some tweaking.

To calculate, add all US VPs, all DPRV VPs; subtract DPRV VPs from US VPs and read from the following list:

180+ Decisive US victory
140-169 US victory
110-139 Draw
60-109 US defeat
<60 Decisive US defeat
Last edited by toonces on 2008-12-22 06:52:52, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-22 04:05:09

Part 2: Playing the scenario

The OOBs have been generated and the target list is provided to the player. The scenario briefing provides the ground rules for the player.

Scenario
Date: April 1967
Campaign length: 5 days
Weather: Clear
Campaign type: Joint

[note: I cannot figure out how to add squadrons to CVs, so the USN OOB is left blank. For future scenarios this will be tweaked to make either a USN-only, USAF-only, or joint USN/USAF campaign. This campaign is designed within the boardgame for a joint OOB].

Ground rules:
The US player may fly as many missions per day as he wishes. However, the US player may only score 4 missions per day (total of 20 scoring missions during the campaign). The player may (and is strongly encouraged to) create "gorilla packages" to accomplish mission objectives. Success or failure is irrelevant for scoring purposes. Victory points are awarded for all aircraft within the player's mission.

[note: I'm still working this out. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be possible to check the results of other packages outside of the player's strike group in debrief. Therefore, scoring is only awarded for the player's own strike group. This may be significant with respect to victory conditions.]

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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-22 04:25:26

Part 3: Playtest example

Mission 1: OCA Strike against Dien Bien Phu Airfield (just to try out mission victory points and scoring)

Target (placeholder for VP scoring):
*Hoa Lac airfield runway 1/4/7 [4 vp for damaged, 7 vp for destroyed]
*Hoa Lac control tower 1/3/4 (radar) [3 vp for damaged, 4 vp for destroyed]
*Hoa Lac aircraft revetments 1/3/4 (hangars, taxiways, fuel tanks) [3 damaged, 4 destroyed]


US flights:
Boxer 1- 4xF-4D Strike package, load Mk-82s
Python 1- 4xF-105G SEAD package, load Shrikes and CBUs
Buckskin 1- 4xF-4D Escort, load 4 and 4

Time on Target: 1115

Discussion: All 3 packages originate from Korat AB, so no adjustments are made to the route except to avoid obvious SAM emplacements.
All flights taxi and takeoff without problems. The Escort flight (me) gets out about 20nm in front of the strike and SEAD flights. Because I know where I put the MiGs, I don't expect any problems (and don't have any).

At target area, Buckskin takes up an orbit just south of the SAM radar ring. Python successfully attacks with Shrikes and CBUs, but in return 3 are eventually shot down. Boxer successfully drops on the airfield, however only Boxer 1 does any damage.

Result: 1 Radar destroyed, 2 fuel tanks damaged; 7 AAA sites destroyed (no score), 1 Fan Song destroyed (no score), 4 SA-2 sites destroyed.

Scoring-US: 1 radar (1x4vp), 2 fuel tanks (2x3vp), 4 SA-2 sites (4x2vp) = 18 VP

Scoring- DPRV: 3 F-105G (3x2vp), 6 crewmen (6x1vp) = 12 VP

Campaign total: 18-12= 6 VP

So, for example, if I flew 20 missions at 6 VP per mission: 20x6= 120 (Draw)

[For illustration purposes, say an additional escort flight had been borrowed from the ATO and had its waypoints adjusted to fly in the vicinity of the strike (this is the principle of Gorilla-building). Any MiGs or other damage this flight caused would not be scored. You wouldn't be able to see it on debrief anyway. Only flights that you can examine on debrief count for scoring purposes. However, that escort flight may save your bacon from the MiGs, so just because they don't count for VPs doesn't mean they aren't useful, or even vital...]
Last edited by toonces on 2008-12-22 04:53:59, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-22 04:37:19

Additional thoughts:

When starting the campaign, the HQ box is unchecked and the following changes are made:
Hanoi PAK set to highest level.
Haiphong PAK set to medium-high level.
All other PAKS set to minimum level.

Mission tasking-
Interdiction, CAS, armor, infantry, etc. all set to lowest level.
OCA set to mid-high.
Strategic Strike set to near max.
CCC, logistics, Army, set to mid-high.

SEAD set to mid-high.
DCA off. Naval strike off.

Basically set the sliders to maximize strikes against scoring targets and minimize attacks on ground units, defensive flights, etc. As the ATO generates large strike packages, the US player can "borrow" them and set them to hit the target he/she chooses.

The OOB (currently) is built to give the US player enough sorties in the ATO at a given point to build a Gorilla package. The player wants to find strike missions with 3x4 aircraft packages (12 aicraft total) for scoring, and then can hijack other flights to build his gorilla. F4Patch within FreeFalcon allows "large strike packages"; I have personally seen as many as 16 planes in other campaigns. In order for the ATO to be robust enough to allow for a gorilla build, a significant number of planes must be in the OOB. However, this need must be balanced by the knowledge that the Falcon 4 engine is going to keep pumping out CAPs, Sweeps, and OCAs without any player input. Therefore, a balance must be struck between an historical OOB, that which allows for the player to play the campaign, and that which also keeps from overwhelming the computer DPRV.

We are playing with a database that isn't maximized for a 1967 campaign. SAMs are deadlier, ECM is more effective, and so on. Historically the Vietnamese pilots and ground crews were largely outclassed by their American counterparts. While it is far more fun dogfighting and flying against ACE level SAMs and MiGs, this could make the campaign unwinnable. In "real life" an Alpha Strike would consist of a huge coordinated strike with jammers, chaff corridors, etc. In order to meet this limitation in Falcon world, it is probably best to play with air and ground at no more than VETERAN level; an even lower level may be appropriate.

I look forward to your comments.

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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by Snake Man » 2008-12-22 10:32:43

Well what can I say, just awesome reading your work and discoveries, it makes me feel so good that you enjoy PMC theaters. Just great stuff.

Could you write summary of what needs to be tweaked in Vietnam theater in order it to be more realistic, like what target objectives (and their types) are we missing now etc?

Thanks, keep up the great work Toonces! :)
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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-22 19:37:02

Hey Snakeman,
I'm just not the right person to answer OOB questions. I haven't done enough research into the subject- I borrowed the OOB you all posted a few threads below when I figured out where to put the different planes, but I have no idea how many squadrons of each platform were actually in theater at any given time.

Now, the Downtown game gives a very nice OOB breakdown for the Navy CVs onstation. That's one of the really nice things about board wargames; they do alot of the OOB legwork for you. When/if we ever get around to working on Europe again, there are just a plethora of boardgames we can use to generate a ground OOB...

With respect to this mod though, the idea isn't to necessarily get a complete, accurate OOB. What is more important is to get enough of the right kind of planes at the right airbases to allow the player to create sort of historically accurate airstrikes. If you can get the ATO to task two 16 ship airstrikes anywhere around the same timeframe, the player can get into the ATO and tweak those strikes, waypoints, TOTs, etc to create a more or less realistic Gorilla Strike.

But the Falcon 4 game is limited by the .tri file and mission "success" or "failure". It keeps the campaign from having any larger goal other than flying around and blowing things up. If you construct a set of goals for the player, well now you have a reason to strike a target, a reason for striving to do something within the campaign.

It's a different approach to the campaign. The Vietnam campaign is a great testbed for this idea because the war lasted 10 years! We can take a 1 week chunk of that war, construct a scenario, and then let the player go for it. Additional campaigns can be built upon this "one week" idea where we give the player a small taste of a week of the war at different points. We can create a USAF Rolling Thunder, a USN Rolling Thunder, a bunch of Linebacker scenarios, some with B-52s, etc. The idea isn't to necessarily have all of these planes present all of the time- you tweak the OOB so that the relevant planes are present depending on the scenario you are gaming. This includes the DPRV OOB- we tweak the MiGs to ensure they meet the scenario objectives. Sometimes the MiGs were up in force, sometimes they were almost a non-issue. This can be heavily influenced by how many MiG squadrons we put into a scenario, and where we put them.

I suppose in summary, I'm just trying out something new- approaching a campaign in a different way. It is my firm belief that when FF5 comes out, folks are going to be itching to fly all the new stuff those guys are creating. What better place to fly all the new Phantom models, A-4s, A-6s, etc than Vietnam?

Will people want to spend time calculating victory points? Will they want to play a campaign that doesn't include a gucci finale movie announcing victory? I don't know. If I could figure out how to get Falcon to count up victory points and victory conditions, I'd do it! But I can't. So screw it, let's work with what we have and see what we can come up with!

Finally, to answer your OOB question: perhaps the best place to look to see some of the ideas I'm kicking around is the actual Downtown website here: http://www.airbattle.co.uk/downtown.html

The designer was nice enough to put the rules and scenario books online for free download. The campaign scoring system is in the rule book, section 28. http://www.airbattle.co.uk/Downloads/Downtown_Rules.pdf

The campaign design is based upon the campaign scenario C1 on page 30 of the scenario book: http://www.airbattle.co.uk/Downloads/Do ... narios.pdf

The Navy OOB table is quite nicely done. If you can explain how to add squadrons to CVs, I'll generate a campaign based on that and playtest it. This will all make alot more sense if I can test out and post an AAR of a completed campaign. Here's an excerpt of the Navy OOB from the scenario book; sorry about the formatting issues.

ID Line Dates Carrier CAP and Armed Escort Bombing Jamming SEAD Recon
A 5 Aug 64-21 Nov 64 Constellation F-4B A-4C - A-4C RF-8A
B 18 Sep 64-12 Apr 65 Ranger F-4B A-4C - A-4C RA-5C
C 28 Dec 64-2 May 65 Hancock F-8C, F-8E A-4C *, A-4E * - A-4C, A-4E RF-8A
D 1 Feb 65-14 Oct 65 Coral Sea F-4B, F-8D A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8A
E 10 Apr 65-4 Nov 65 Midway F-4B, F-8D A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8A
F 8 May 65-25 Nov 65 Oriskany F-8D, F-8E A-4E EA-1F, EF-10B A-4E RF-8A
G 28 May 65-16 Dec 65 Bon Homme Richard F-8E A-4C EA-1F A-4C RF-8A
H 27 Jun 65-11 Nov 65 Independence F-4B A-4E, A-6A * EA-1F A-4E RA-5C
I 5 Nov 65-20 Apr 66 Ticonderoga F-8E A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8A
J 2 Dec 65-5 Jun 66 Enterprise F-4B A-4C EA-1F A-4C RA-5C
K 17 Dec 65-10 Jul 66 Hancock F-8C, F-8E A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8A
L 24 Dec 65-22 May 66 Kitty Hawk F-4B A-4C *, A-6A * EA-1F A-4C RA-5C
M 13 Jan 66-5 Aug 66 Ranger F-4B A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RA-5C
N 14 Jun 66-9 Nov 66 Constellation F-4B A-4C *, A-4E *, A-6A * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RA-5C
O 30 Jun 66-26 Oct 66 Oriskany F-8E A-4E EA-1F A-4E RF-8G
P 10 Aug 66-27 Dec 66 Franklin D. Roosevelt F-4B A-4C *, A-4E EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8G
Q 12 Sep 66-31 Jan 67 Coral Sea F-4B A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8G
R 13 Nov 66-28 Apr 67 Ticonderoga F-8E A-4C *, A-4E * EA-1F A-4C, A-4E RF-8G
S 4 Dec 66-22 May 67 Kitty Hawk F-4B A-4C, A-6A * EA-1F A-4C RA-5C
T 18 Dec 66-20 Jun 67 Enterprise F-4B A-4C, A-6A* EA-1F A-4C RA-5C


The way ahead for this idea is to:

1. Build a campaign scenario based upon the OOBs in the game rules
2. Build a frag list based upon the VP values in the game rules and matched to PMC targets (there are plenty of bridges, factories, etc.)
3. Tweak victory conditions so that the player can both win and lose the scenario based on his performance
4. Put together a coherent, well designed set of rules for playing the campaign, a clear spreadsheet of targets and VPs, etc.

Ideally the player would download the campaign, boot up a scenario, read the ground rules, print out the frag list. Then the player takes strike packages generated within the Falcon 4 ATO and adjusts them to hit the target he chooses, weighing the victory point value against his cumulative total, the risk of losing VPs to the DPRV, how many flights he has left in the campaign, and so on. Sometimes it will be important to hit the high-value targets, sometimes it will be smarter to hit the low-value targets. Maybe a scoring flight with a pair of A-6s on a SEAD flight will bring home some valuable VPs, other times a Gorilla might be appropriate. The player chooses- he wargames it, striving to build the right strikes to hit the targets that score enough points for victory...

Ok, I have to get back to my thesis...

See ya,
Toonces

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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by Snake Man » 2008-12-22 21:29:38

PMC Editing Wiki: Falcon 4 Campaign, carrier squadrons will explain now the basic information how to add carrier squadrons. If you have further questions about it, hum throw me a PM or try to search more proper topic for it.

Adding carrier squadrons is easy as you can see now :)
Toonces wrote:I'm just not the right person to answer OOB questions.
Well do you think the target list in your mentioned war game is accurate? If so, we could use its data to add those PMC Vietnam Theater missing objectives, right?
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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by toonces » 2008-12-22 22:20:37

Ahh, I see what you're getting at.

Well, let me go through the target list in the game, and see what objects are already in the PMC theater. It's a matter of finding the object on the boardgame map and seeing what PMC objects are nearby. I'm just not all that familiar with all the locations in Vietnam, so figuring out where everything is from one map to another is a bit challenging. Once I see what I have to work with, maybe I can add in some targets if required.

I knew I'd seen that CV info somewhere. Let me work with all this stuff and see what I can come up with. I just wanted to throw this info out to the crowd to see what others thought...it still needs some fleshing out for sure.

Ok, I'll work on a CV campaign and frag list and put my results up here. Might be slow going with my bday and xmas coming up this week, but I'll stick with it.

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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by Snake Man » 2008-12-23 12:14:49

toonces wrote:Might be slow going with my bday and xmas coming up this week, but I'll stick with it.
Happy birthday and merry Christmas :D
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Re: "Downtown" Beta C1-1 (Toonces mod)

Post by derStef » 2008-12-30 21:28:02

Yeah Happy Birthday Toonces!

keep up the good work!
i wish you all the best for the next year!

Cheeeeeers
Stef

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