Phantom cockpit

[Carl]

Hey Snakeman, I really like the Vietnam campaign, and to everyone who put aside spending time with the girlfriend to give us this gem, FEEL THE LOVE MAN! I know atleast two other guys in my VFS that have run this baby. I'll see if I can get others to run it. Is anyone working on a phantom pit? I've been waiting for a good phantom sim for a long time and USAF doesn't do much for me(not after playing Falcon!) Question # 2: where is the napalm for the phantom in this game? I see it as an option for the F-16 but not the Phantom. Mayby I will have to use F4browse after all

[Snake Man]

quote:Originally posted by Carl:
Is anyone working on a phantom pit? where is the napalm for the phantom in this game?

There is no phantom pits ready at this moment, we are willing to make (ugly) cut-paste cockpit as soon as we get some photos of the real thing.
As for napalm, CCC is modifying the database to add it.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

Ugly? Man, it depends on the quality of photos!!
I remember the first combat flight sim using photorealistic panel, Dynamix's A10 tank killer..amazing! though in 256 colors!
If we can get professional shots of all vnam pits, it wont take long to do all 2d pits.(ya, photorealistic pits, my favorites!)

[Death_119]

[brewskie]

death, now you put that back where you found it.
I told you guys i would go to Dayton's exhibit, but F4A said they had some photo's already, plus Silkman's positive message to
snakeman at delphi. I'll go to dayton, but i have to first be "sent." And look for it to be at least 2 weeks from the time i buy the ticket.

[Death_119]

No i won't found it on warlocks site. at least its something. but none of the buttens is working.


[This message has been edited by Death_119 (edited February 17, 2001).]

[Bigfoot1]

Death,

I want to fly an F-4 in Falcon, not USAF...

The gauges in that pit don't even work.

[ccc]

Dudi and brewskie,
that 2d art pit comes from Jane's USAF. and has been converted for F4 for a while.
no doubt you cant find other views, nor workable gauges --> nobody edit it yet!

Honestly, i still prefer a photorealistic one, brewskie, take any pics if you can sit right in the pit(s)!

[Aeyes]

Brewsky, if you can make some good pics it will def increase speed of Pantom cockpit development.
If i may add something to the discussion here from a cockpit editor's view, please take shots with daylight if possible.
Don't use flashlight, take a series of snaps overlapping eachother from a pilots and WSO's view (360 dgs)
Take snaps of a 90 dgs angle of each panel in detail and from a pilots view in detail.
That should do the trick.

Furthermore, within F4A, Theseas i believe is working on a F4 cockpit already, but haven't seen screens yet so i don't know how far he got sofar. If the pictures turn out good, i am willing to help out setting the pit up where ever i can, or maybe help in bundling strenght to get the Phantompit on the road eeerrr in the air

Btw, what type of Phantom are you guys after? the E,F or G?

[Tex]

Aeyes,

I was pointed to a site that model builders use to detail they're models. Inside the site there is a link to "Walk Arounds".

They have an F-4G front seat/back seat with a complete rotation from the respective seats. Very good info!

I am trudging along assembling a F-4 cockpit using these pictures as a guide along with another line art drawing of the F-4E.

One thing that I don't have is the layout of the backseat. i.e. what all the switches and dials do or are called.

The link to the site is: http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/ in the top title bar you will see the link to the Walk Arounds. Follow that.

If anyone knows where I can find a line art diagram of the backseat, it would be appreciated.

Tex

[brewskie]

Snakeman,something wrong, i write,submit, i can't see the post. Aeyes,Tex, i'll be going to dayton from
white plains the first week in March. I'll everyone know when everything is confirmed.
The F-4D is an open pit on display.

[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited February 18, 2001).]

[Aeyes]

Thanks for the feedback, i had posted on the falcon 4.0 board about the matter too.

Those at the walkaround are very nice pics, and with a certain amount of undusting are very usefull for a full pit front and back.
We do need more pics though, if possible even more detail on items.
What i miss is a 12 o'clock view through the HUD, to see what space is left (not much).
Meanwhile i found a nice linedrawing describing all functions

[Tex]

Heh heh,

That's actually the drawing that I am using to overlay my artwork on!

I'm doing the layout in AutoCAD using 3D solids and then i'll either render from within AutoCAD or export to 3DS format and render from within a ray tracer. Dunno which would be the best way to do it. Any suggestions?

I also found a place that shows the correct size for some of the panels so this gave me the reference I needed to make the 'pit real world size.

Would be great if we had the same thing for the backseat. I do have a layout for the "D" model but I don't know how much has changed between the D and the E? The front seat is quite different so I would think that the back is the same.

Glad you found the walkarounds useful, Aeyes. I think it was CAG that posted it over at Frugal's world. I can't remember tho' so I may be giving credit to the wrong guy.

One question, Aeyes if you don't mind. When I'm modeling the cockpit, do I need to model the needles and moving parts of the gauges or are those things added by the program later on? I am putting in a reference point for the center of the gauges so I will be able to locate the point when needed.

I'm far from ready to be actually coding the cockpit but while you're here I thought i'd ask.

TIA,
Tex

[Aeyes]

That's a good way to do it Tex, using this drawing for reference as to positions etc.
I have noticed the F4 has a pretty dense pit, i mean a lot of stuff at the center panel.

Regarding moving parts, the only things you don't have to draw yourself are the needles, they are made by the game, but giving them the right coordinates, fatness, length and radius is still something you have to do yrself. Also there is a yellow marker in the ADI that is hardcoded.
All the other parts you want to have moving are drawn in the 10_tmplt.gif and activated from within the ckpt.dat file
For that part i have to point you to Xis's cockpit editing guide i believe at Frugal's.
If you have more specific questions you can always email me at aeyes@xs4all.nl

[Snake Man]

quote:Originally posted by Aeyes:
Btw, what type of Phantom are you guys after? the E,F or G?

Vietnam Theater has the E model.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

[ccc]

OK Man,
my apologies for posting links again..

pits, radar, and regular loadout info:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3227/systems.htm

f4 FAQ
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3227/f-4e.htm

and an excellent AA story(dunno how to set the pk for sparrow) :

A Vietnam Ace's Story
- AIM-7s work well - even out of the envelope


"About 30 miles southwest of Hanoi, we began getting calls from Disco (the forerunner of AWACS) that there were two Blue Bandits (MiG-21s) in the area. At approximately 5,000 feet on an easterly heading, Paula flight received the 'heads-up' call. 'Heads-up' meant the MiGs had us in sight and had been cleared to fire. That information was at least 40 to 60 seconds old, and we had no visual on the MiGs. At that point, the Disco controller, some 150 miles away, looking at his radar scope, dispensed with the normal lengthy radio procedure and announced, 'Steve, they're 2 miles north of you.' I made an immediate left turn to north, picked up a 'tally ho' on the lead MiG-21 at 10 o'clock; then rolled further left, blew off the external wing tanks, went full afterburner, and passed the MiG at about a thousand feet, just under the Mach. At this point, we saw only one MiG, but we knew there were two. I rolled level, pushed the nose down, and waited. Sure enough, the second MiG was about 6,000 feet in trail.

'As we passed No. 2, I came hard left into a nose-down slicing turn, about 6.5 Gs, and lost sight of both MiGs. About halfway through the turn, we were very surprised to see the No. 2 MiG high in a level right turn. To reduce the high angle-off, I barrel rolled left to his low 5 o'clock position and at about 6,000 feet, maneuvered to put the target in the gun sight, achieved a quick auto-acquisition lock-on (one pulse), and fired two Sparrow missiles. There was a 4-second wait from radar lock-on until trigger squeeze and another 1.5-second delay until the missile launched. Over 90 electronic and pneumatic steps had to take place in sequence before the missile would fire. A 4-G turn was necessary to keep the MiG in the radar field of view as he turned down into us. (The book said 3 to 4 Gs max for a successful launch.) The first missile came off at about 4,000 feet and more than 40 degrees angle-off. We were at minimum range and maximum performance conditions for the Sparrow. The lead missile hit the center of the MiG's fuselage, and the second went through the fireball.

'At this point, Paula No. 4, pulling as hard as he could, managed a radio call, 'Steve, I've got one on me!" The lead MiG had made it all the way around the circle and was almost in Atoll firing position behind Tommy Feezel. We unloaded over the top of the fireball after a piece of debris from the MiG nicked the leading edge of our left wing, selected full afterburner, and cut across the circle to gain a rear quarter position on the remaining MiG, again at about 5 o'clock low. The angle-off was very similar to that on the first MiG, but we were closer. The lead MiG-21 was highly polished with bright red stars (every other MiG I saw was a dingy silver). The MiG pilot saw us, forgot about Tommy, and started a hard turn our way. He was a lot better than his wingman and rotated the airplane very quickly. I fired at about 3,000 feet with almost 60 degrees angle-off (the radar breaks lock at 60 degrees) pulling about 5 Gs. Only one missile was fired because we were inside minimum parameters with minimum probability for a hit. The missile appeared out in front, snaking back and forth like a sidewinder, and seemed not to guide. All of a sudden, the missile pulled every available G (approximately 25) and hit the MiG dead center in the fuselage at just about missile motor burnout which accelerated the 435-pound Sparrow to approximately 1,200 mph above launch velocity. "SPLASH TWO."

- Brig. Gen. ( then Capt. ) Steve Ritchie
Reprinted from ACC's Combat Edge, August 1992.

[GigaShadow]

Started development of an F4-e Phantom Pit. Can need every information available in all regards, eg pictures, drawings and every available info on the *.dat file.