missiles and bombs for Vnam theater?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-01-25 13:19:00

Ripper releases modified GBU-10 3d model!

http://www.delphi.com/falcon4/messages/?msg=14843.2

Snake Man, did you contact him for modeling Vnam munition?

and, Can somebody bring up a full list of missiles/bombs/rockets munition for Vnam theater?

I've talked to Ripper hours ago, i think he could help Vnam theater. With Julian's 3d model plugin tool, new files could be swapped with f4patch, probably linked to theaters, so we should be able to do batch-swapping of 3d model(munitions)in near future.

my list here:
Mk117, MK118 iron bomb.
AGM62 walleye?
AGM78
and?

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-01-26 17:04:00

Can you send me some of your Vietnam 3D models for 3dsmax, I could give them to our 3D geek so he can make some air-to-air combat or bombing animations. Thanks.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-01-26 17:15:00

On the way.

btw, we'd better generate a vnam wpn(missile/bomb) list ASAP!

[This message has been edited by ccc (edited January 26, 2001).]

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 01:05:00

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ccc:
[Can somebody bring up a full list of missiles/bombs/rockets munition for Vnam theater?
my list here:
Mk117, MK118 iron bomb.
AGM62 walleye?
AGM78
and?

General Purpose Bobmbs
Mk 117 is a M-117, 750lb.
MK 81, 250lb
Mk 82, 500 lb
MK 83, 1000lb
MK 84, 2,00lb
M118, 3,000lb

Rockets
2.75 inch FFAR, Folding Fin Aircraft Rockets
Zuni, 5 inch

Nape
BLU-1B, 750lb
BLU-27B, 750lb
BLU-23B, 500lb

more later

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-23 13:49:00

Thats a good list, keep it coming and thank you.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 16:59:00

GP Bomb trivia:

M-xx designators are for bombs produced prior to 1960. These are referred to as FAT bombs.

MK-xx series bombs produced after 1960 were low drags. This areo design produce less drag resulting in greatly improved a/c performance.

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 17:38:00

Fuel Air Munitions:
CBU 55/B, 500lb
CBU 72/B, 500lb
PAVE PAT II, 2,500lb

Missiles
AIM's (Air Intercept Missiles)
AIM-9 Sidewinder
AIM-7 Sparrow
AIM-4 Falcon

AGM's (Air Ground Missiles)
AGM-12 Bullpup (real piece of junk)
AGM-45 Maverick
AGM-45A Shrike
AGM-78 Standard ARM

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-23 17:48:00

You also had the all important laser guided boomers. Check these chance.
GBU-10's modified mk84's.
GBU-12.

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 18:01:00

CBU's

SUU-30B/B. Suspended Underwing Unit, made in 2 halves splits open to dispense bomblets (BLU's). SUU-30 varied in wieght depending on the BLU's contained from 718 - 818 lbs and was the shell for the following CBU's

CBU-24, 29, 49, 52, 58 and 70.

A smaller tubular dispenser was the SUU-14, used primarily on the A-1's, T-28's and A-26's and depending on the BLU's was:
Mk 5, Mk 15, Mk 21 and Mk 22.

SUU-45/A TFDM (Tactical Fighter Dispenser Munitions)

SUU-25, 42 and 44 were Flare Dispensers

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 18:13:00

brewski

I don't know anything about the GBU's. By the time they showed up I was down in the Delta. Our job was convoy cover for the river convoys trying to get up the Mekong to Phoem Penh.

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 18:42:00

Some old stuff (pre 1960 production) carried by A-1's, T-28's and A-26's.

M28A2, 100lb fragmentation bomb
M29A1, 500lb frag
M41A1, 20lb frag (carried in clusters)
M1A2, 100lb frag cluster (6 bombs)
M72A1, 23lb frag (carried in clusters)
M81, 200lb frag
M82, 90lb frag

M36, 700lb Incendiary Cluster
M76, 500lb Incendiary
M116A2, 750lb Fire Bomb

MK-30, 100lb GP Bomb
M-57, 250lb GP
M-64A1, 500lb GP

M47A2, 100lb Smoke Bomb. Willie Pete used in SAR Ops

This old fat stuff was unsuitable for Jets but worked well for the slow movers. Many of these were used until the inventory was depleted.

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 19:02:00

Guns

M3 .50 Cal T-28, 2 in underwing pods, A-26, 8 mounted in the nose

M3 20MM, 4 mounted in the wings

M-39A1 20MM, F-100, 2 0r 4, depending on a/c model, fuselage mounted

M61A1 20MM (Vulcan)
F-104
F-105
F-4E
SUU-16 and SUU-23 gun pods hung on the centerline of F-4C/D's

GAU 2B/A minigun, employed on various gunships and helicopters

SUU-11 7.62 minigun pod. Carried primarily on the left Stub of the A-1, occasionaly used on other a/c.

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-23 19:24:00

whoops

M3 20MM, A-1E/G/H/J, 4, wing mounted

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-24 01:02:00

Fuel Air Munitions:
Missiles
AIM's (Air Intercept Missiles)
AIM-9 Sidewinder
AIM-7 Sparrow
AIM-4 Falcon

varinats?

AGM's (Air Ground Missiles)
AGM-12 Bullpup (real piece of junk)
AGM-45 Maverick
AGM-45A Shrike
AGM-78 Standard ARM

ya, AGM12 bullpup!

AGM62 walleye
AGM65 maverick, typo?

BTW, fuel tank type?

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-24 01:33:00

Chance,
It's not too often we have a real nam veteran pilot visiting us.
Everybody loves those Sandy's

To add to chances list:
The F4 Phantom's WSO used the pave knife laser pod designator. The pilot pickled the weapon.
GBU-10 was a modified mk84 for bridge busting, and there was a laser bomb kit for the M118 3000lb bomb, but i don't know the designation.
GBU-12 was a modified mk82 for tanks busting

There was a GBU-8 tv guided mk84 bomb used in high quanities. USAF version of a beefed up Walleye. It was controlled by the WSO.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-02-24 01:47:00

hey Brewski,
in my humble loadout tweak, i make LANTRIN target pod available on f4 pylo(2,7), so looks like a pave knife!
we should have some TEs like striking Dragon Jaw! my 2c, that bridge should get a higher damage point to bear more hits!

BTW, where's the bridge? near Honei? cant find it..

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-24 01:56:00

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ccc:
>AIM-4 Falcon [/b]

Believe they the AIM-4D's, mach 4, with the improved IRH (InfaRed Homing). the B used SARH, semi-active radar homing.
Falcons were carried by ADC F-102's. As far as anyone knows there was never one fired in SEA

>varinats?

Yup, variants up the kazoo but it would take a dilegent bean counter to get them all straight. Basically nobody cared except the BB stackers who brought them to the flightline. The armament placard simply read Sidewinder, Sparrow, etc

>ya, AGM12 bullpup!

Bullpups had a tendancy to cause pilot fixation. Were more dangerous to the shooter than the target.

>AGM62 walleye
Walleye 1 was a 850lb TV guided bomb
Walleye 2 was a MK-83 TVGB eventually designated GBU 15

>AGM65 maverick, typo?
TYPO, just Red Xed my typing finger.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-24 02:14:00

From what i have, the AGM-65A tv maverick was used against targets
in N.Vietnam, but I think less than 100 were ever fired. It is technically correct to say it was used.

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-24 02:22:00

>we should have some TEs like striking Dragon Jaw! my 2c, that bridge should get a higher damage point to bear more hits!

BTW, where's the bridge? near Honei? cant >find it..

tripC
The real name is the Thanh Hoa Bridge (pronounced Tan Wha) spanned the Black River south of Hanoi on Colonial Rt 1. It was about 10 miles inlandfrom the coast between Nam Dinh and Vinh.

BTW I have a song about the bridge I can put up on my "useless" web site if anybody is interested. about 1.8 meg mp3

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-24 02:34:00

quote:Originally posted by chance:
I have a song about the bridge I can put up on my "useless" web site if anybody is interested. about 1.8 meg mp3

Yes please, who knows it might turn out to be worth of intro/ui music

PMC TFW
Snake Man

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-24 02:42:00

brewski

The Mavericks were first used in Apr 72 during the seige of An Loc. Other than that I knows nuttin. They belong to the next generation

chance · Post by **chance** » 2001-02-24 03:09:00

Snake Man

URL is http://206.129.85.147

Not: this is a private, useless site for my low class friends. Somer material is in poor taste which is about all they understand.

Thanh Hoa Bridge is in the lower left. As I run this from my very own puter, be patient.

Warning: If you don't sign the guestbook and say something obnoxious, you get added to the spam list.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-24 03:39:00

Anyone here with previous knowledge of falcon 4 datafile limits?

I was wondering is there some simple limit of how many weapons there can be... as you guys know I'm too bad for wanting it all, my first thought was for all these vietnam era weapons listed... "I want them all"

Could that be possile?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

JimG · Post by **JimG** » 2001-02-24 03:50:00

Snake, some of these listed weapons may be from another era other than 1972. Since there are probably limitations on how many blank weapons slots there are in F4Browse, you probably need to prioritize your wish list. As I said earlier, if you can get a AIM-9B and a AIM-7E made, then the rest of the stuff is already in the game. It would be nice if the RPG would take the F-4G and remake it into a F-4E(SEA)...only put the weapons on the plane that are relevant to 1972. If the RPG will do the work for you, then it will already be out there in their RP Patches.

TheSilkMan · Post by **TheSilkMan** » 2001-02-24 05:37:00

Snake, Jim, CCC, I have been in contact with the RPG loadmaster. He is currently compiling a list of loadouts for each aircraft in the Vietnam theater. I suggest we wait for his preliminary list. I will let you know what other RPG support will be available.

JimG · Post by **JimG** » 2001-02-24 14:18:00

Silk, thanks for the post...patience shown now will prove to be valuable later on.

Snake...looks like you've started something special here and it is growing...good work and thanks for being a pioneer. I sincerely hope this project blooms into what your vision for it. I can see a day when people will be buying F4 because of your Vietnam mod. Over time, some real gifted people will show up and offer help...the real challenge is figuring out their value to your project and finding a way to include their contributions to what you already have. Keep up the good work. Jim

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-24 15:09:00

quote:Originally posted by JimG:
Silk, thanks for the post...patience shown now will prove to be valuable later on.

Sure lets wait a while for the list.

quote:Snake...looks like you've started something special here and it is growing...good work and thanks for being a pioneer. I sincerely hope this project blooms into what your vision for it. I can see a day when people will be buying F4 because of your Vietnam mod. Over time, some real gifted people will show up and offer help...the real challenge is figuring out their value to your project and finding a way to include their contributions to what you already have. Keep up the good work. Jim

Thank you very much. You know when I first started this Vietnam Theater, your pages were the first ones I snooped for information, I really appreciate these nice comments coming from you, thanks.

PMC TFW
Snake Man

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2001-02-24 15:10:00

quote:Originally posted by chance:
http://206.129.85.147
Not: this is a private, useless site for my low class friends. Somer material is in poor taste which is about all they understand.

It might be so tasteless I cannot even access it?

PMC TFW
Snake Man

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-24 16:45:00

I just signed his guestbook, he's got an
incredible site. I couldn't believe it, but
he's actually got Loas airbases. Could be a Raven,well he's not a Sandy, but maybe he's PAVE NAIL!

Actually the pave nail facs were out of Nakhon Phanom i believe, Ho trail duty.
I really like the OV-10a's. We really need to model them, the FACS were a critical part of the war in SEA. They painted/marked the targets for the fastmovers. They were in the battles/fire fights along side,supporting the infantry grunts. OV-10's were in Desert Storm too.

[This message has been edited by brewskie (edited February 25, 2001).]

Gunfighter · Post by **Gunfighter** » 2001-02-24 17:55:00

I'd love to see 2 or 3 SUU23's slung under an F4D like in the book PHANTOM IN COMBAT if its possible

TheSilkMan · Post by **TheSilkMan** » 2001-02-24 19:22:00

Snake, if a Full RPG support effort is put in theorectically we would have a seperate data set for the Vietnam theater and a separate set for Korea or other theaters. In this case, All weapons that can be correctly simulated can be added in place of the modern ones which would be removed. The same would go for units and aircraft. Likewise, we would have Vietnam RPX and the continuing Korean RPX. There may be a delay on units and aircraft due to the required F4A modification of the 3d models to look like the correct(renamed, re-"datafied",redrawn) entities. Data, time and F4 are the limits.

brewskie · Post by **brewskie** » 2001-02-28 01:40:00

According to page 165 of the RP 4 user manuel there is an OV-10D FAC
modeled in F4.

Fatz · Post by **Fatz** » 2001-03-24 17:47:00

quote:Originally posted by ccc:

http://www.delphi.com/falcon4/messages/?msg=14843.2

and, Can somebody bring up a full list of missiles/bombs/rockets munition for Vnam theater?

FATZ Nam Lib "Ordnance" Version 1.0

This document will list all new and reconfigured weapons in the Fatz Nam lib. All the weaponry is of this era as far as I can determine.The AIM 4 D Falcon is not here due to the fact that it's use was limited to about 18 months and sparingly at that. It shot down 4 mig17's and 1 mig 21. It had limited manuverability, and a tendency to cause engine flameouts, the fire control system took 6 or 7 seconds to launch after the firing button was pushed, and lastly it had to directly hit the target as it had no proximity fuse.

Machine Guns

Colt 20mm x4 4 guns heavy fire. This gun was to be replaced by the M61 Vulcan in the next generation of aircraft.

7.62 Mini Gun AH-1 Cobras used this or the M197

AC7.62 Mini Gun Used by AC 47 Gunship

GSh 30mmx1 used by Mig 17 (and 23mmx2)
(x1 stands for barrel or gun #'s)

GSH 23mmx2 used by Mig 17's mig 21's

M197 Chin Turret 20MM AH-1 Cobras used this or the 7.62 Mini gun

M2 60 Cal Machine gun Used on UH1 Huey's in doors and mounted along sides

M61 Vulcan Cannon Carried by F4E

MK12 20mmx4 used by A4E Skyhawk

SUU-16/A containing M61A1 gun 1200 rounds(later to become the SUU-23/A) used by USAF F4C's

Air to Air Missles

AA-2D Atoll Infared Guidance mounted on Mig 21

AIM-7E Sparrow SARH

AIM-7F Sparrow SAHR

AIM-9B Infared Guidance

AIM 9D IR range up to 12 miles

Air to Ground Missles

AGM-12B Bull Pup Aircraft radar Guided light armour ground targets ( not very effective)

AGM- 45B Shrike 1st Generation HARM

AGM- 65A Maverick 1st Generation Infared hard target missle

M65 TOW Missle Wire guided AH-1G missle -Helo's only-

SA-4 Tarter Missle Air Defence missle

Unguided Rockets

Lau3 and Lau16 Launchers

2.75 inch Rocket Pod 19 rockets/pod

2.75inch FFAR's 24 rockets/pod

5inch Zuni Rockets 4 rockets/pod

Guided Air to Ground bombs

AGM-62 Walleye Developed for the navy Glide bomb guided by launcher

GBU 8 Paveway TV Guided

GBU-10A Paveway I Laser guided steel bomb

GBU-10 Paveway II Laser guided steel bomb

GBU 15 Paveway TV guided

Steel Unguided Bombs

CBU-25x4 Fragmentation Early Cluster bomb 4 frag bombs per unit

CBU-88x2 Fragmentation 2 frag bombs per unit

M116 Napalm Canister 750 lbs

M117 General Purpose 750 lbs

M117 x3 GPB Low Drag General Purpose 3 pack

MK81 LDGP 260 lbs

MK82 Slick 500 lbs

MK82 HD Snakeye 500 lbs High drag

MK83 LDGP 1000 lbs

MK84 Slick 2000 lbs

Ive got more info from a years worth of research if ya need more. Weapon load outs first hand mission accounts ect..

Fatz · Post by **Fatz** » 2001-03-24 19:01:00

quote:Originally posted by chance:
Guns

M-39A1 20MM, F-100, 2 0r 4, depending on a/c model, fuselage mounted

M61A1 20MM (Vulcan)
F-104
F-105
F-4E

The F-100A/C/D All carried 4 20mm Pontiac M-39 cannon

The F100F (2 seat) carried 2 20mm Pontiac M-39 cannon In 1965 several F100F's were modified to carry An/APR25(originally developed for the U2)radar homing and warning receiver and AN/APR26 to detect missle guidance and a IR-133 to indicate nature of threat. they had a threat panel and a blinking launch light in the cockpit. They had LAU3 rocket launchers to mark targets. The Project was given the name WILD WEASEL after the fierce and fearless animal.

F104A origanally fitted with the M61 rotary
Cannon. In 1964 Fitted with the M61A1 cannon

F105A/B used the M61 rotary cannon
F105D/F Wild Weasel/ later changed to the F105G used the M61A1 cannon

F4E First Phantom to House the M61A1 Cannon

F5A housed in the nose 2 Colt-Browning M39 cannon

F5C 2 Colt-Browning M39 cannon. C/D(2 seater) was a USAF designation. 18 aircraft belonged to the 4503rd TFS then became the 10th FCS attached to the 3rd TFW at Bien Hoa. They flew exclusively in South Vietnam with over 3500 sorties.

[This message has been edited by Fatz (edited March 24, 2001).]

Fatz · Post by **Fatz** » 2001-03-24 19:13:00

[This message has been edited by Fatz (edited March 24, 2001).]

JimG · Post by **JimG** » 2001-03-25 01:08:00

Don't forget the old M-118 "instant do-it-yourself swimming pool" bomb that went on the F-105Ds.
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm11b.htm

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-03-25 03:45:00

Fatz, where's the link to your lib ver1.0?

Fatz · Post by **Fatz** » 2001-03-25 22:26:00

quote:Originally posted by ccc:
Fatz, where's the link to your lib ver1.0?

I guess I should have edited this copy and paste. Library is from Janes ATF that I made about 4 years ago. Have since removed my webpage but do have all my stuff. Dont know if this is quite what you were looking for.
But I have accumulated quite a bit of research information from the net and through the book "Ten Thousand Day War" and the Time Life Books "The Vietnam Experience" series.
If I could be of some help let me know

Fatz · Post by **Fatz** » 2001-03-25 22:26:00

[This message has been edited by Fatz (edited March 26, 2001).]

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2001-03-26 04:09:00

Fatz, lib for FA is one thing, though we are glad to have those research info. The key point is translating the info into falcon4 format, thru f4browse editing.

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