Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Vietnam theater

Moderators: Lone Wolf, Snake Man

Post Reply
ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-12 04:31:00

Shwan at F4SP want a list of weapon/vehicle/unit for database editing.

feel free to post what you learn about the nam stuff. lets generate the list ASAP.

weapon- air/land/sea

vehicle- air/land/sea

unit- composition of US army/USMC/SVA/NVA/VC

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-16 11:59:00

hmmm....no vnam expert?

alright,
i'd like to have this one:
http://204.50.25.179/gallery01/f100mr_1.htm

BTW, just note Alpha sim start to work on their new project: Vnam a/c series.

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-11-17 04:31:00

Hello CCC,
Which part of the conflict were they interested in specifically? American forces in-theatre waxed and waned quite a bit at different times. I have quite a bit of information about specific units (primarily aviation) and some bases, and they change quite a bit over the course of the conflict.
Hamm.
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-18 12:51:00

well, im more interested in all vehicle/weapon shown in Vnam war, just list them, i'd like all of them added in F4 :D

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-20 04:41:00

I left some old projects about vnam stuff, need some info/line drawings/dimension to finish them.

1. small GP bomb, Mk81?
2. Mk81 with an extended ignitor rod, model? mk81? mk82?
3. A37 fuel tank underwing, model?
4. bundle of rods used by A-1 skyradier, triangluar cross section, dispensor?
5. Mk118 GP bomb, dimension and pic?

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-11-23 09:24:00

right, I'll be looking for some of that then. Here's a list of aircraft that was in theatre during the closing years of the war:

3 page list of aircraft on my utility page

ok, here's a few pics I found in the local chapters bookstore friday:
The first is a closeup of those rocket bundles under an A-1 wing. The second is the full picture. The third is of 2.75inch FFAR's being fired from an A-1.

Image

Image

Image
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-11-26 17:56:00

Just a guess, but I've seen the bundled rockets on lighter FAC aircraft, so I think
they're white phosphorus marking rockets.

The rods at the end of the bombs you described are daisy-cutter fuse extenders, to trigger a bomb blast a few feet above ground, for anti-personel purposes.
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-27 04:36:00

Thanx Hamm, i think i can figure out the size of that "bundle of rods".

BTW, pliz help finding a line drawing of Mk118 GP.

As for a/c, A3/A5/B66/HH3 will be on the list. others are half done or in the making by F4LE members.

ya, it takes longer to modeling a/c then weapon/munition, dont expect Vnam a/c can catch F4SP2 release.
Hope i can finish all major omb/pod/munition before F4SP2 modeling deadline, Dec 10, 2001.
so, let me know what ammo you want ASAP. :D

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-11-27 22:21:00

aahhh. I was hoping someone more capable than I would redo the phantom.

I have several magazine photos of the daisy cutter equipped gp bombs, and I think they also use mk117's too, if there's such a thing. I have an exploded diagram of a fully loaded F-105D and I'm certain it said the bombs were mk117's. Looked like thousand pounders at least. Either way, I'll see if I can scrounge up the line drawings you're interested in.
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-11-29 10:05:00

found descriptions of all A-G ordinance in U.S. inventory in 1982 issue of Jane's Weapons Systems at a public library. Damn, no line drawings, but I'll copy details over tomorrow, I'm on the road right now. Mk117 and mk118 appear to be 750 and 3000 lb GP bombs, (or vice versa). :D
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-29 10:19:00

mk117 750 lb. > model done.
mk118 > need line drawings, or at least a pic at right side view.

other AG munition info is welcomed.

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-29 12:06:00

Hamm, that bundle of rods is SUU14A dispensor for various submunition. 3d model ready for SP2!

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-11-29 12:06:00

sorry double post

KBMIL
2nd Lt
Posts: 87
Joined: 2001-07-12 22:01:01
Location: Belgium

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by KBMIL » 2001-11-29 19:22:00

CCC,

in case my post did not get through, sorry no RAH-66 comanche drawings !

greets Mil :roll:

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-12-01 02:50:00

Found a Drawing! :D That 1982 copy of Jane's weapon systems I found lists the M118(E2) varient as the only M118 in inventory at that time; a 3,000 lb GP HE bomb. I found this drawing of it and the M117 in Doug Richardson's "Classic Warplanes" book, "Republic F105 Thunderchief" ISBN 0-8317-1410-7
Hmmm, the M117 looks more like a Mk82 doesn't it? I think the author made an error, myself. The pic's I have of the M117 are fatter.

Image
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-12-01 03:19:00

Thanx Hamm!!!

no wonder i cant find the pic, i got Jane's 1986, no earlier copies.

BTW, thats an error for mk117. its mk82 variant. i got 117 pic from joeri. model done.

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-12-01 04:24:00

yeah, you're right. the 117 is mislabled.
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2001-12-01 07:12:00

Hamm, i need the length figure of mk118.
model is done, but got to scale it to correct size. could you fing those dimension figures from jane's?

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2001-12-01 19:10:00

Sorry, the entry for it's dimensions is :eek: blank :eek:
...But the drawing in my earlier post is supposed to be to scale, if that helps.
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-02 03:32:00

The pic of the M-118 is correct. M-117 and 118 were both "fat bombds" from the era before the low drag MK series (81, 82, etc.
The label is a mistake though, the M-188 is a GP (general purpose) bomb, not HE. Construction was a cast steel case with 1,975 lbs of Tritonal, total weight 3,049 lbs.

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2002-01-02 04:07:00

I know its a fat bomb. but dimension info is critical. the model is done and waiting for scaling to its right size.

too bad, i've sent my request to teh museum( the only pic you can find on the net from that museum), i think its USAF museum? for dimension info, hmm,, they told me come over to measure it myself! :p

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-03 04:03:00

ccc sends: "i think i can figure out the size of that "bundle of rods".

As stated it is the SUU-14A/A, but everybody referred to it as the CBU-14. SUU stands for Suspended Underwing Unit and is generic for any CBU container. The normal CBU used in the 14A/A was the BLU-3/B (Bomb Live Unit), 114 each. Explosive filler 1.4 lbs Tritonal (I think)

Specs:
Length 81.3 inches
Width 9.3 inches
Height 11.2 inches
Tubes 6
Disp Mode Single/Ripple

BTW: SUU14s were only used on slow movers, A1-s, A-26s, T-28s, 0-2s, etc. CBU container of choice for the speedy guys was the SUU-30B/B, a split clamshell casing similar in appearance to a M-177. Generically it was called CBU-24 but the acutual CBU designation depended on the bomblets packed inside, with the weight varying between 700 & 800 lbs. CBU-24 was a SUU-30B/B w/BLU-26/B bomblets. These were tennisball sized nasty little puppies and very effective. Over the course of the war the CBU-24 was the most used.

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-03 06:44:00

A fairly good, if incomplete, list of USAF Units, Locations and assigned a/c is posted on my web site at: http://members.tripod.com/chancefac/Tai ... _Codes.htm

What are you looking for in the way of Weapons listings? If you want a simple list of a/c ordnance with brief description, some pics, line drawings and specs let me know.
Chance
larryh@w-link.net

brewskie
Lt Colonel
Posts: 299
Joined: 2000-08-04 22:01:01
Location: tarrytown,ny

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by brewskie » 2002-01-03 12:48:00

That has got to be the best list on Nam i've ever seen. Thanks Chance.

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-04 00:55:00

M-118 - The real deal per USAF T.O. 1-1-26 from retired Weapons Weenie, HU-1G (20th Helicopter Sq, Green Hornets) gunner, and AC-119G Gunner Jim Green. Jim has more normally useless crap stored in his cranium than most Weapons Troops learn in a lifetime, plus the fact that he probably stole a copy of almost every piece of paper he came across in the AF.

Assembled Length 185 inches
Body Diameter 24.13 inches
Fin Assy M-132
Lug Spacing 30 inch
Flight Limits G's +6, -2.5
Fuze (Nose) M-904 Series
FMU Series (Proximity)
Tail Fuze M-905

If you care to read about Jim's Aerial Exploits of Derring Do, check out: http://members.tripod.com/chancefac/Sto ... ission.htm

tripC, if you have a good copy of the M-117 you can scale it to these dimensions as all M Series wepons were stretched and bloated copies of each other. Same-same as the Mk-81s, 82's, etc.

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-04 02:50:00

M1A1 Fuze Extender ("Daisy Cutter") 36"

This fuze extender, commonly called the "Daisy Cutter" consists of an explosive filled length of steel tubing. The extender is installed in the nose fuze well adapter booster and an instantaneous fuze, M-904, is installed in the forward end of the extender. An inertial non-delay fuze may be installed in the tall fuze well.(In case of Nose Fuze failure) This arrangement detonates the bomb above ground, and improves both blast and fragmentation effects. It is very effective when used against enemy troop concentrations even in forested areas. When fuze extenders are used, minimum safe distance from friendly troops is increased (double MSD is the rule of thumb).

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2002-01-04 04:02:00

Excellent info! now i can scale mk118 to correct size!!
and yes, i have finished mk117 a long while ago. but 117 is quite different from 118, i mean the tail section, so i model 118 according to pic supplied by Hamm and museum shot.

btw, diasy cutter is done by Quake?, will be available in new SP patch.

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-04 08:15:00

hamm cites M-118(E2):

M-118s were later upgraded and given "brains" as part of the Paveway Program. The E-1 (KMU-370/B)was a 118 fitted with the LGB kit while the E-2 got the Electro-Optical guidance kit and became the KMU-390/B.

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2002-01-04 10:37:00

wow, i didnt hear this part, mk118 smart bomb.
how many used in nam? line drawings? or pic?

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-04 17:00:00

ccc Will send you the pic bc. If someone can explain how to post pictures here, I will post it.

By about 1974 the Paveway Program was zipping right along and all the conventional bombs were being fitted with LGB/EOG systems and getting new names. In the field nobody cared about the new designations and still referred to a Mk82 as a Mk-82, M-117 as a 117, etc. For the record, here's some of the morph

M-117, 750#, KMU-342/B
Mk-84, 2000#, KMU-351A/B
Mk-82, 500#, KMU-388B/B
Mk20 MOD 2 (Rockeye CBU), KMU-420/B
Conventional SUU-54/B CBU (Pave Storm) Dispenser, KMU-421/B

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2002-01-04 22:27:00

I'll echo CCC: WoW.
BTW I have a pic of the bombs in question, but the angle isn't good. Photo's by Maxine MacCaffrey published in Jack Broughton's "Going Downtown."
Image

Image

Chance, to post your pics follow the "what is UBB Code?" link on the "post reply" page. It uses url's so the image has to be already published on the net. Therefore if you want to post your own pics you have to upload them onto the net yourself. For example I use my isp and stash the images on two or three pages like these: www.icrossroads.com/~kcins/utility.html
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-05 06:12:00

Test pic:

Mk-82 w/MK 15 TRD, retarding device (fins)
aka "Snake" Image

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-05 06:26:00

Snakeye Test 2. Sorry guys but this code stuff over my head
Image

If this doesn't work, direct line is
snakeye

chance
Recruit
Posts: 53
Joined: 2001-02-22 23:01:01
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by chance » 2002-01-05 09:55:00

re A-1 TC 803 pics.

803 was assigned to the 1st Special Operations Squadron, NKP Thailand. 4 A-1s were sent to Bien Hoa in Apr 72 during the Easter Offensive but since Bien Hoa was a F-100 parking lot suitable weapons for the Spads were hard to come by. This is the only example of Zunis on an A-1 I have ever seen. The 6 CBU-14s were standard for SAR work, but that red nosed appirition is another Navy item, SUU-44 Flare Dispenser. It is loaded on the left Stub where a SUU-11 mini-gun pod belongs. Why someone would trade a mini-gun for a flare dispenser is beyond me.

172ndhamm
1st Lt
Posts: 123
Joined: 2000-10-27 22:01:01
Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada
Contact:

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by 172ndhamm » 2002-01-05 15:03:00

Night interdiction missions for one. Low and slow A-1 flies over the H.C.M. trail looking for truck traffic. When he thinks he found some, he drop's a flare, and uses it's light to nail the trucks. At least two USN A-4 squadrons specialized in the same technique too.

Here's a m118 from www.vectorsite.net Image
_____________________________________

"Vegetarian" is an old Cree word for 'Lousy Hunter'.
"Burning debris never reversed on anyone."

ccc
Chief of Staff
Posts: 4857
Joined: 2000-08-06 22:01:01

Re: Weapon/Vehicle/Unit in Vnam war?

Post by ccc » 2002-01-05 23:11:00

Hi Gentlemen,

could you start a a new thread..too many pics... i got to wait tens seconds to check any new posts!!

BTW Hamm, mk118 model is done. will be available in sp2.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests