How to add unit reinforcements?

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-04-24 23:27:16

Hi all.
I searched the wiki and the forums, but I didn't find the answer to this question.

Is there a way to add units such that they enter the campaign after the campaign start? For example, I want to add a bunch of infantry and mech units onto the map, behind enemy lines, about an hour after campaign start to simulate airborne troop drops. The only thing I see on tacedit on the battalion unit screen that sounds close is "spotted time".

Thanks,
toonces

icebrain · Post by **icebrain** » 2009-04-25 01:38:19

I know with squadrons there's a "rienf" field or something like that; put the time delay there (in hours) and check the "inactive" flag. Don't have access to tacedit right now (wrong computer) but I'd assume it's the same for battalions too.

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2009-04-25 09:08:10

toonces wrote:I searched the wiki and the forums, but I didn't find the answer to this question.

There is now

PMC Editing Wiki: campaign - reinforcements.

As you can see, its still work in progress, please lets follow up on this and sort it all out so that page can finally be the comprehensive explanation on reinforcements. For example I knew what I wrote in the page right now, but the CCC's post about campaign deciding when the reinforcements will show up, instead using the reinf tab is quite curious info to me.

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-04-27 01:16:52

Ok, I followed the instructions on the wiki.

Unfortunately, it is not working at all. If I don't click "inactive", the unit will appear on the map immediately and will also accept tasking immediately. If I check "inactive", the unit never shows up- or at least with a "1" in the reinf tab, it doesn't show up for at least the first 3 or 4 hours...beyond that I just stop the campaign.

I tried several combinations- setting the brigade inactive/battalions active; bde active/bns inactive; both inactive; both active...all had the same result. I also tried it using OPFOR (huge numerical advantage) and BLUEFOR (huge numerical disadvantage). Results are exactly the same for both sides.

I read what ccc wrote. I have no idea what criteria the campaign engine is using to determine reinforcements- it's more than just force levels.

Unfortunately, this is a showstopper for what I'm trying to do right now. If anyone has any additional inputs or ideas, I'm listening.

Thanks,
Toonces

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-04-27 02:30:55

Hope Biker or other campaign masters could help this subject. i remembered i've some discussion with Biker about reinforcement setting.. but non-conclusive.

hmm.. another suggestion is " checking deafult korea campaigns".

- from my campaign experience, i do remember both red and blue could have reinforcements during the war.. on 2d map UI, sometimes a message shows " US. reinforcement arrived at XXXX " remember? i just forget which campaign have it - seems [iron fortress] type, blue side in critical status.

- another idea is, set reinforcment units belong to another nation - and let the nation join the war once force ratio hit the mark.

molnibalage · Post by **molnibalage** » 2009-04-27 06:21:06

I have done some test so far. For squadrons it worked. I haven't tried for ground units because it's structure. (division, brigade, battalion ---> parent issue)

Otherwise for AC squadrons in FF4 was a bit random effect. Reinforcement sometimes worked if you save and exit and entered again to campaign. In FF5.0 I'm not able to test anything because the locked DB..

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2009-04-27 11:20:41

Yes Korean campaign does have reinforcement brigades & battalions.

I quick glance to SP4.2 save0.cam file suggests that the brigades are with unit flags Parent and Inactive, then the battalion linked to this brigade is with only Inactive unit flag.

Dunno if you guys can test this setup?

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-04-27 12:10:15

SM,
I'll check on that tonight. Also, Sherlock posted a reply on my Nevada thread that using 64x speed acceleration can mess up the time keeping in the campaign, and therefore, the timing of the arrival of reinforcements.

I was using a reinf time of "1", which means (to me) that even at 64x, if I let the campaign run for 4 hours the reinforcement should have shown up- even with a messed up time keeping in the campaign.

But, for completeness, I'll re-run with 8x time compression and see what happens.

I'll also ensure I have things set up as you described. I'm pretty sure I had that setup with the Brigade set as parent, but I might have forgotten.

I'll re-run everything tonight.

Also, everything I'm talking about so far is with respect to ground units- I haven't tried squadrons yet.

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-04-29 00:20:39

My reinforcements showed as expected and requested.

I set Brigade to Parent, inactive; Battalions inactive, reinf 12 for all units.

I ran time compression at no more than 8x since campaign start.

Reinforcement Brigade showed up right on the 12 hour mark.

Sherlock was 100% correct. Thanks Sherlock!

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-04-29 01:54:03

Excellent! thanx for doing the test and confirming it!

now it becomes a reality that reinforcement can be applied as amphibious landing forces-- more and more units showing up every few hours and forming a big bulk of landing invasion force! this one can be applied to Kurile, Taiwan and other island type theaters.

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-04-29 03:59:01

Before you get too excited, just keep in mind that in my Nevada theater, BLUEFOR is hugely outnumbered.

You had mentioned previously that force levels might have some input into whether reinforcements show up. I didn't test that. I will...I just didn't test it this time. Next iteration I'll throw OPFOR reinf in there too, and see if they show up at the same time.

I'll keep you posted.

It's good to see the exchange of ideas producing results though. I'm glad we're capturing this info into a wiki.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2009-04-29 04:48:48

toonces wrote:My reinforcements showed as expected and requested....

Sherlock was 100% correct. Thanks Sherlock!

My pleasure. I'm glad I could be of assistance.

molnibalage · Post by **molnibalage** » 2009-04-29 08:36:00

toonces wrote:My reinforcements showed as expected and requested.

I set Brigade to Parent, inactive; Battalions inactive, reinf 12 for all units.

I ran time compression at no more than 8x since campaign start.

Reinforcement Brigade showed up right on the 12 hour mark.

Sherlock was 100% correct. Thanks Sherlock!

Can you try with an AC carrier and squadrons?

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-04-29 08:45:05

molnibalage wrote: Can you try with an AC carrier and squadrons?

reinforcement- carrier and ac squadrons works and shown in earlier FF3/4 campaigns!

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2009-04-29 10:12:43

I have added the bits about time acceleration into the PMC Editing Wiki: Reinforcements page. Thanks for everyone for testing these things out. Let me know if there is anything else to tweak in there.

derStef · Post by **derStef** » 2009-04-29 11:13:55

ccc wrote:
molnibalage wrote: Can you try with an AC carrier and squadrons?
reinforcement- carrier and ac squadrons works and shown in earlier FF3/4 campaigns!

i can confirm. it works in my Taiwan mod already.

also tried the reinf stuff for ground units, but these guys appear a bit more random... for me it's not 100% working in Taiwan.. but still needs testing.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2009-04-29 17:58:45

molnibalage wrote: Can you try with an AC carrier and squadrons?

It works fine in Allied Force as well as far as time of appearance with Carriers and Squadrons on Carriers.

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-05-01 11:13:09

Just another quick follow-up to this.

I added some more reinforcements last night. Running the campaign at 16x seemed to work fine. After 12 hours my BLUEFOR reinforcements arrived right on time.

On OPFOR, I had two sets of reinforcements set to show up at D+9 and D+12. Neither set showed up.

Because OPFOR has about a 10:1 superiority in ground vehicles, it appears that this might inhibit the reinforcements from showing up.

I only have a sample size of 1, so I can't make any definitive statements. This does seem to confirm what others have already said; that 16x seems to be the useful limit to time acceleration, and that the campaign engine can withhold reinforcements if the disparity in numbers between the two sides meets some threshold.

ccc · Post by **ccc** » 2009-05-01 11:58:19

ah, thanx for confirming " 16x time compression is working for reinforcement "

with your test result, campaign-making could become an ART of power balance..

PMC Youtube channel · Post by **Snake Man** » 2009-05-01 13:02:12

How about getting someone from FF team to explain the source code how reinforcements are really handled?

molnibalage · Post by **molnibalage** » 2009-05-01 20:43:39

And what about supply? Can be a problem? How does it work exactly?

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 2009-05-01 22:16:13

molnibalage wrote:And what about supply? Can be a problem? How does it work exactly?

What does supply have to do with adding a reinforcement (topic title)?

toonces · Post by **toonces** » 2009-05-02 02:07:22

I think Molni is referring to how supply can influence the appearance of reinforcements. As in, if OPFOR (for example) has high numbers of ground forces, but is out of supply, does that influence the appearance of reinforcements?

There are a lot of parameters that can be screwed with on many screens, from Battalion all the way up to campaign level. I think we're just scratching the surface of how they all interact with one another. I like to hope they're all there for a reason and serve some bigger purpose. Could be wishful thinking I suppose.

I have some ideas, but nothing solid enough to go on about tonight. Stuff for a rainy day I suppose.

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