subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

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subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by SLEATHER » 2010-08-03 17:07:07

i was wondering how do you place subs on the skunkworks mod for AF. ive looked and seen them in the tactical reference but i cannot see them in the the tactical engagement editor? anybody?

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Snake Man » 2010-08-03 17:43:37

I assume you mean submarines, if I'm correct, those do not work in any Falcon version, sorry.

I think ccc can put them in as pure 3D models replacing ships, but the submarine unit type is just not working.
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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by SLEATHER » 2010-08-03 18:26:20

Thats too bad, oh well... by the way, nice forum you got here!

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-08-03 18:38:21

AFAIk , the sub code is broken (waypoints ) but in AF subs were added to carrier unit (carrier Kosovo ) . you can add them as carrier group to get 688's .

So , no sub units won't work properly on there own and above is kind of a hack/test .

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-03 20:28:07

In all my year's of "Hacking" at Falcon (all Version's) I have never come across a completed Naval code. Not MP,AF,BMS or FF. I have seen some semi-successful hack's by Tattione and the RV boyz (i.e. Carrier Ops, but it is still an Airbase and airbase's are not supposed to move in Falcon....HAHAHa!) As far as Submarine's are concerned,not only is ED_1 correct,but,also the Model's were never completed in any version! I came across an Undersea and a Outerspace manager in the code year's ago, just B4 LP went underground, but that code is incomplete\unused at best.There is no way, at this point, to implement them in Falcon.I did manage to "Hack" the carrier group's in Falcon to move East to West as well as North to South but that was a Hack that turned out to F' up other thing's in the Code.
So it would take ALOT of TIME to finish what was started by Louie and crew.

BTW Have you EVER seen a Train moving down the track's in Falcon...!?!?!!?


Sorry,
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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by ccc » 2010-08-04 01:50:22

well.. i've an idea for sub hack..

-create a new ship CT. treat sub as a ship. group them as a patrol unit.
- 3d part, the normal parent - use a dot lod, simulates a submerged sub. set radar return and IR signal minimal. the damaged parent - use a surfaced sub lod.

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-08-04 02:24:48

ccc wrote:well.. i've an idea for sub hack..

-create a new ship CT. treat sub as a ship. group them as a patrol unit.
- 3d part, the normal parent - use a dot lod, simulates a submerged sub. set radar return and IR signal minimal. the damaged parent - use a surfaced sub lod.
That's basically what we did , but roles (task orders) only really work for carriers .

You don't need to worry about radar RC, only works with AC , there no weapon with radar to hit a ship, that i know of offhand .

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by ccc » 2010-08-04 02:48:56

can such hacked-sub work as patrol unit, like Grisha patrol unit?

Can hacked-sub attack other ships in AF/OF?

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-08-04 02:56:36

ccc wrote:can such hacked-sub work as patrol unit, like Grisha patrol unit?

Can hacked-sub attack other ships in AF/OF?
From memory , no ,not by themselves, the need carrier group to attack other vehicles good .

you could just add some of weapons a sub has to patrol boat and run it in TE, see if it works like it should (fire on other objects .
I know they fire on ac but there something in carrier that makes them (any ship) attach good and have waypoints .

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Luk » 2010-08-04 07:32:55

What about to make submarine as carrier replacement. Then it could make AI attacks and also lunch human drived suicidal "tomahawk" missiles(add package). This would be a replacement of some unused aircraft + unarmed. Imagine fantastic MP experience - defenders are trying to intercept oponents - they are cruising their subsonic low RCS "tomahawks" in the walleys and try to reach their targets. I can imagine such dedicated "Tomahawk" logbook with over 5 deaths per evening... :lol:

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P.S. Even for versions without "add package", the ATO is tasking ground attack for unarmed/(or empty sq-stores) ACs (if defined as attack AC) I think

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Luk » 2010-08-18 09:00:58

Just an aditional though to the naval units problem.
It is inspired by discusion/speeches in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21770&start=40
We were talking about tweaked sea tile, with defined paths on it(┼). Such a tile could be used also to fill "naval operations" area. This area would be populated by some "dump/invisible" objectives to create usefull "sea-path network". This network will not be linked to the land road network. The submarine(+also other naval units) could be a ground unit type in this case(with proper naval model of course). So the player could task naval units where to go and they could engage each other. We can find gun+missile armed units in F4 (for example Tunguska). So our new naval units could fire agains ACs as well. Sub unit would be just a periscope with wake behind. Sub/periscope could also fire "invisible shells" agains enemy ships.
:mrgreen:
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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Luk » 2010-08-18 09:20:00

note - I guess, the interception profile of AG missile is editable. Of course, it would be funny to bomb a periscope using antiSub AC. But it is a little bit stupid. I am thinking about more funny option - to tweak some AG missile (torpedo Lod + very very low and flat flight profile + speed as low as possible). Such a weapon would be also useless against other GU (crashing into 1 feet terrain)
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by ccc » 2010-08-18 09:53:18

Luk, i don't think your idea work.

With sea-road or all (+)path sea tiles, ship-looking GUs still work like ground unit = moving toward its ground target, then stop at broken linking site.

The best solution is NEW CODE. it has been discussed in F4Alliance era..such as: Let naval units able to move over all SEA tile area, Set naval units a patrolling zone or close patrolling path, sub needs new signature type, etc.

As for ASW weapon like Torpedo..in some SP falcon, there is a bug that AAM/AGM hit ground but won't explore.. missile just travelling on ground with white trail. yah, it looks like torpedos!

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Luk » 2010-08-18 11:42:18

Luk, i don't think your idea work.
With sea-road or all (+)path sea tiles, ship-looking GUs still work like ground unit = moving toward its ground target, then stop at broken linking site.
That's why I said:
This area would be populated by some "dump/invisible" objectives to create usefull "sea-path network".
This is just rough sample, how it can look.
For some reason, the creator desides the best(probably the shortest range for navals in modern era?) range is 10-15nm for an edge inside engagement zone. This zone could be perhaps 20x20 objectives. Then we need some ingress/egress(escape/haunt)routes.
Image

I dont think, these "naval units" are the main in the theater and everything depend on them (primary objectives to capture etc).
I think we can task ground units in all F4 subversions. For the camp. beginning, there could be some preplanned missions for them(it is possible for GU).
On the other hand, I can also imagine a new "oceanic" or "carrier command" scenario as well (wherw the Primary is situated in the sea - kquote x,y... :wink: :mrgreen:

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-08-18 15:06:59

Luk wrote:What about to make submarine as carrier replacement. Then it could make AI attacks and also lunch human drived suicidal "tomahawk" missiles(add package). This would be a replacement of some unused aircraft + unarmed. Imagine fantastic MP experience - defenders are trying to intercept oponents - they are cruising their subsonic low RCS "tomahawks" in the walleys and try to reach their targets. I can imagine such dedicated "Tomahawk" logbook with over 5 deaths per evening... :lol:

Luk
P.S. Even for versions without "add package", the ATO is tasking ground attack for unarmed/(or empty sq-stores) ACs (if defined as attack AC) I think
That would probably work if setup right (you have to setup ct data like carrier) . since subs have decent weapons that might work, At least in AF as I know work on carrier stuff was done so they fire on each other and move with waypoints.

Tomahawk are another issue as there long range and setup right now as abstract object (they do, do damage AFAIK (2d type)) .

Getting ATO to task ground attacks , that might be problematic . I experimented in te's and was able to get them to fire on ground objects off shore if carrier were close to shore line .
To get fully working naval would need a lot more code work in various area's .

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by demer928 » 2010-08-18 21:45:54

Ed_1 wrote:That would probably work if setup right (you have to setup ct data like carrier) . since subs have decent weapons that might work, At least in AF as I know work on carrier stuff was done so they fire on each other and move with waypoints.
Tomahawk are another issue as there long range and setup right now as abstract object (they do, do damage AFAIK (2d type)) .

Getting ATO to task ground attacks , that might be problematic . I experimented in te's and was able to get them to fire on ground objects off shore if carrier were close to shore line .
To get fully working naval would need a lot more code work in various area's .
I would be VERY interested in how you did that!!!!!Nevermind the Sub's right now!!!!!!
If you could PM me ...Just a "TidBit" of how you accomplished that. I would die a Happy Man!!!!
I "Hacked" some Code a few months ago to get the Carrier Group to follow WP's (e.g. when they turned from North to South, I was able to Extend their East to West movement.Got some OTW shot's to Prove it!!)
And ,Yes, that part of the Code need's dire Help!!!!!

TIA,if your willing,
demer

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by Ed_1 » 2010-08-18 23:27:55

demer928 wrote:
Ed_1 wrote:That would probably work if setup right (you have to setup ct data like carrier) . since subs have decent weapons that might work, At least in AF as I know work on carrier stuff was done so they fire on each other and move with waypoints.
Tomahawk are another issue as there long range and setup right now as abstract object (they do, do damage AFAIK (2d type)) .

Getting ATO to task ground attacks , that might be problematic . I experimented in te's and was able to get them to fire on ground objects off shore if carrier were close to shore line .
To get fully working naval would need a lot more code work in various area's .
I would be VERY interested in how you did that!!!!!Nevermind the Sub's right now!!!!!!
If you could PM me ...Just a "TidBit" of how you accomplished that. I would die a Happy Man!!!!
I "Hacked" some Code a few months ago to get the Carrier Group to follow WP's (e.g. when they turned from North to South, I was able to Extend their East to West movement.Got some OTW shot's to Prove it!!)
And ,Yes, that part of the Code need's dire Help!!!!!

TIA,if your willing,
demer
Ah, my comment on waypoints was meant in campaign (you can click on ship and see there waypoint paths ) . In TE there is none I am afraid .

Its been a long time since I tried/tested this out .
I made a carrier group with only specific weapons I am testing (they were surface to surface weapons , don't remember which offhand)).

I setup them up off shore within range and let time go. I got damage on various objects along shore (2d damage). I then enabled the weapon to be 3d through ct record . I had to give weapon a sensor with said range. I also remember altering thrust table on weapon because originally it had isses getting enough thrust to get to targets . I entered 3d world for this test and just watched them fire on targets .

This is with AF code base. Older SP3 based code needs the ships ACD to be same as a AD one in order for them to fire (not sure if they would fire surface to surface. thats going back to far .

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Re: subs in tactical engagement on skukworks AF mod?

Post by sputterfish » 2010-08-24 11:37:45

ccc wrote:well.. i've an idea for sub hack..

-create a new ship CT. treat sub as a ship. group them as a patrol unit.
- 3d part, the normal parent - use a dot lod, simulates a submerged sub. set radar return and IR signal minimal. the damaged parent - use a surfaced sub lod.
This is basically what I have done in SKunkworks to go about creating sub units. I changed existing naval groups that were unused to set a single sub. I changed sub types to naval and not undersea. Also pointed the models to existing 2 or 3 models.

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